The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post

goldwine · 02-22-2002, 01:29 AM

A quote from Gilthalion on the other thread:

Similarly (IMHO), God, in order that we would have free will, has limited his own power, but being God, can take whatever we throw at him, and knock it right into the prophetic.
Thus, while not constraining us to behave as automatons, he nevertheless is a player himself, and like Illuvatar, can make the Destiny that is His Will come forth, no matter what Morgoth may sing to the contrary. The songs of Tolkien's creation were powerful themes. The actions of the creatures were variations on those themes.

But the Song was still Illuvatar's.
_____________________________________________
Destiny is of course an issue - the dictionary definition (a quote from the last thread by amyrlis)

Destiny: a predetermined course of events often held to be an irresistible power or agency.

What make us what we are and determines our deeds? A combination of our genetic inheritance, an element of our own will, a thread of predesination and our circumstances?

The blood line of the Numenoreans ran nearly pure in Aragorn, making him farsighted, wise and long-lived. In part, Aragorn acted as he did because of the strength and power of his antecedents that he inherited.
The hobbits are an example of this too.. The warden in the houses of healing claims that hobbits are "very tough in the fibre" - the outcome of their actions is also the outcome of who and what they are. Merry recovered quickly not only because his wounds were less or because of this physically tough fibre but also "so strong and gay a spirit is in him" (Aragorn).
The role of destiny in LOTR will always be a be a strong one (Is it a reflection of "God's" hand?). Many things were meant to happen. But also the characters were true to the gifts of their races, rose to the challenge and were victims of circumstance.
Frodo was meant to have the ring, by whichever power ordained it. He would not have chosen the role - the role chose him! He "went though he did not know the way" with all the simplicity, honesty and naivety of being a hobbit and this helped to equip him for the task - circumstance provided his faithful and inherently important companion Sam and even his enemy performed the final feat for which he was incapable (more destiny?).
Enough ramblings for one session!

[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: goldwine ]

02-22-2002, 01:29 AM	#10
goldwine Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South Australia Posts: 64	A quote from Gilthalion on the other thread: Similarly (IMHO), God, in order that we would have free will, has limited his own power, but being God, can take whatever we throw at him, and knock it right into the prophetic. Thus, while not constraining us to behave as automatons, he nevertheless is a player himself, and like Illuvatar, can make the Destiny that is His Will come forth, no matter what Morgoth may sing to the contrary. The songs of Tolkien's creation were powerful themes. The actions of the creatures were variations on those themes. But the Song was still Illuvatar's. _____________________________________________ Destiny is of course an issue - the dictionary definition (a quote from the last thread by amyrlis) Destiny: a predetermined course of events often held to be an irresistible power or agency. What make us what we are and determines our deeds? A combination of our genetic inheritance, an element of our own will, a thread of predesination and our circumstances? The blood line of the Numenoreans ran nearly pure in Aragorn, making him farsighted, wise and long-lived. In part, Aragorn acted as he did because of the strength and power of his antecedents that he inherited. The hobbits are an example of this too.. The warden in the houses of healing claims that hobbits are "very tough in the fibre" - the outcome of their actions is also the outcome of who and what they are. Merry recovered quickly not only because his wounds were less or because of this physically tough fibre but also "so strong and gay a spirit is in him" (Aragorn). The role of destiny in LOTR will always be a be a strong one (Is it a reflection of "God's" hand?). Many things were meant to happen. But also the characters were true to the gifts of their races, rose to the challenge and were victims of circumstance. Frodo was meant to have the ring, by whichever power ordained it. He would not have chosen the role - the role chose him! He "went though he did not know the way" with all the simplicity, honesty and naivety of being a hobbit and this helped to equip him for the task - circumstance provided his faithful and inherently important companion Sam and even his enemy performed the final feat for which he was incapable (more destiny?). Enough ramblings for one session! [ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: goldwine ] __________________ 2A Balrog. A demon from the underpants (Gandalf)