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The Witch-King of Angmar · 11-17-2002, 09:07 AM

Hi.

I have a question concerning Turin. In the History of Middle-Earth it is said, that Turin will slay Morgoth with his sword Gurthang.

1. How can Turin live again? He's a Man and that's why he's dead forever, or am I wrong?

2. How could Gurthang be reforged?

Here are some extracts:

"When the world is much older, and the Gods weary, Morgoth will come back through the Door, and the last battle of all will be fought. Fionwe will fight Morgoth on the plain of Valinor, and the spirit of turin shall be beside him; it shall be turin who with his black sword will slay Morgoth, and thus the children of Hurin shall be avenged.
In those days the Silmarils shall be recovered from sea and earth and air, and Maidros shall break them and Belaurin with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and the great light shall come forth again, and the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled so that it goes out over the world, and the Gods and Elves and Men shall grow young again, and all their dead awake."
The Shaping of Middle-Earth, Earliest Silmarillion ~1926

"Thus spake the prophecy of Mandos, which he declared in Valmar at the judgement of the Gods, and the rumour of it was whispered among all the Elves of the West: when the World is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth shall come back through the Door out of the Timeless Night; and he shall destroy the Sun and the Moon, but Earendel shall come upon him as a white flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the last battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Melko, and on his right shall stand Fionwe and on his left turin Turambar, son of Hurin, Conqueror of Fate; and it shall be the black sword of turin that deals unto Melko his death and final end; and so shall the children of Hurin and all Men be avenged.
Thereafter shall the Silmarils be recovered out of sea and earth and air; for Earendel shall descend and yield up that flame that he hath had in keeping. Then Feanor shall bear the Three and yield them unto Yavanna Palurien; and she will break them and with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth; and the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled, so that the light goes out over all the world. In that light the Gods will again grow young, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Iluvatar be fulfilled concerning them. But of Men in that day the prophecy speaks not, save of turin only, and him it names among the Gods."
The Shaping of Middle-Earth, The Quenta ~1930

Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor, and the rumour of his words was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of Night out of the Timeless Void, and he shall destroy the Sun and Moon. But Eärendel shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Fionwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, coming from the halls of Mandos; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the children of Húrin and all Men be avenged.
Thereafter shall Earth be broken and re-made, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Earth and Air and Sea; for Eärendel shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor shall take the Three Jewels and bear them to Yavanna Palúrien, and she will break them and with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth. And the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled, so that the Light shall go out over all the world. In that light the Gods will grow young again, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Ilúvatar be fulfilled concerning them. But of Men in that day the prophecy of Mandos doth not speak, and no Man it names, save Túrin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar.
The Lost Raod and ohter writings, Quenta Silmarillion ~1937

"The greatest of these was Menelmakar, the Swordsman of the Sky. This, it is said, was a sign of turin Turambar, who should come into the world, and a foreshadowing of the Last Battle that shall be at the end of Days."
Morgoth's Ring, Annals of Aman 1000-1050 ~1950

Thx [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

11-17-2002, 09:07 AM	#1
The Witch-King of Angmar Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Berlin Posts: 31	How could Turin return? Hi. I have a question concerning Turin. In the History of Middle-Earth it is said, that Turin will slay Morgoth with his sword Gurthang. 1. How can Turin live again? He's a Man and that's why he's dead forever, or am I wrong? 2. How could Gurthang be reforged? Here are some extracts: "When the world is much older, and the Gods weary, Morgoth will come back through the Door, and the last battle of all will be fought. Fionwe will fight Morgoth on the plain of Valinor, and the spirit of turin shall be beside him; it shall be turin who with his black sword will slay Morgoth, and thus the children of Hurin shall be avenged. In those days the Silmarils shall be recovered from sea and earth and air, and Maidros shall break them and Belaurin with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and the great light shall come forth again, and the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled so that it goes out over the world, and the Gods and Elves and Men shall grow young again, and all their dead awake." The Shaping of Middle-Earth, Earliest Silmarillion ~1926 "Thus spake the prophecy of Mandos, which he declared in Valmar at the judgement of the Gods, and the rumour of it was whispered among all the Elves of the West: when the World is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth shall come back through the Door out of the Timeless Night; and he shall destroy the Sun and the Moon, but Earendel shall come upon him as a white flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the last battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Melko, and on his right shall stand Fionwe and on his left turin Turambar, son of Hurin, Conqueror of Fate; and it shall be the black sword of turin that deals unto Melko his death and final end; and so shall the children of Hurin and all Men be avenged. Thereafter shall the Silmarils be recovered out of sea and earth and air; for Earendel shall descend and yield up that flame that he hath had in keeping. Then Feanor shall bear the Three and yield them unto Yavanna Palurien; and she will break them and with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth; and the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled, so that the light goes out over all the world. In that light the Gods will again grow young, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Iluvatar be fulfilled concerning them. But of Men in that day the prophecy speaks not, save of turin only, and him it names among the Gods." The Shaping of Middle-Earth, The Quenta ~1930 Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor, and the rumour of his words was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of Night out of the Timeless Void, and he shall destroy the Sun and Moon. But Eärendel shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Fionwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, coming from the halls of Mandos; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the children of Húrin and all Men be avenged. Thereafter shall Earth be broken and re-made, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Earth and Air and Sea; for Eärendel shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor shall take the Three Jewels and bear them to Yavanna Palúrien, and she will break them and with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth. And the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled, so that the Light shall go out over all the world. In that light the Gods will grow young again, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Ilúvatar be fulfilled concerning them. But of Men in that day the prophecy of Mandos doth not speak, and no Man it names, save Túrin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar. The Lost Raod and ohter writings, Quenta Silmarillion ~1937 "The greatest of these was Menelmakar, the Swordsman of the Sky. This, it is said, was a sign of turin Turambar, who should come into the world, and a foreshadowing of the Last Battle that shall be at the end of Days." Morgoth's Ring, Annals of Aman 1000-1050 ~1950 Thx [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "He who breaks a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom."