[Kuruharan]

Well, since nobody else is taking up for the poor dragons I guess the task falls to me.

1. All those that kill a Balrog are themselves killed in the process.

This would be a true statement, except for one little thing. We do not have the deaths of all the Balrogs and Dragons described to us. For death's of Balrogs we have Gothmog, the one that Glorfindel killed, and Durin's Bane. We don't know the exact circumstances of the death's of the other four (or however many, I personally think that seven Balrogs is a bit low, but that's another thread.) For Dragons we have Glaurung, Smaug, and Ancalagon the Black. The Balrogs that we know of were killed when they were fighting against one opponent and concentrating on that one opponent. The Dragons in the list were killed when they were leaping over gorges, or town baiting, and in the War of Wrath. Earendil was no mere mortal man and he had a Silmaril which was no doubt of great aid to him. The other two dragons were killed when they were not fighting a single opponent (or not fighting at all) and distracted. (Not that I'm finding fault with Turin and Bard, the best way to kill an enemy is when they are not expecting it, especially when that enemy is a dragon.)

2. Every person who killed a Dragon survived.

I refer you to my answer of point 1. We don't know for sure.

3. Look at the types of people it took to kill a Balrog. Ecthellion, Glorfindel, and Gandalf. Two of the greatest and most powerful elves ever to exist and Gandalf, enough said.

Yes, but do we know if any of the above ever faced and fought a dragon? I would hardly say that Turin was a slouch at the fighting either, even if he was a puny man.

4. Bard was able to kill Smaug, no offense to Bard but he's no Gandalf.

Ah, yes the seeming weak spot. However, as I stated above, Bard shot Smaug when he was "town-baiting" not when he was fighting Smaug face to face. Gandalf as far as we know never even saw Smaug, we don't know what would have happened if he had.

5. The Balrogs have quite an impressive resume of slain elf lords; Feanor, Fingon, Glorfindel, and Ecthellion. They took Maedhros and Hurin (the greatest mortal warrior ever) hostage. Dragon's haven't even killed any lords of men, let alone someone like Gandalf.

Ever notice how when Balrogs (notice the plural) kill an Elf-lord and so forth, they rarely did it by themselves. It took the whole pack of them to off Feanor, Fingon was holding his own until another Balrog snuck up behind him and cast a thong of fire about him, Maedhros was ambushed and outnumbered, and Hurin was exhausted from fighing all day and night, and Gothmog was not the one to take Hurin but Hurin was buried underneath orc arms until he could not move. That (as far as we know) Dragons have not killed someone like Gandalf is true and I can't find anything to say to it except...

But he loosed upon his foes the last desperate assault that he had prepared, and out of the pits of Angband there issued the winged dragons, that had not before been seen; and so sudden and ruinous was the onset of that dreadful fleet that the host of the Valar was driven back, for the coming of the dragons was with great thunder, and lightning, and a tempest of fire.

I always thought that some Maiar spirits in incarnate form were in the army of Valinor (I might be wrong about that) and they seem to have given way to the Dragons and some of them may have been "killed."

6. Just because Balrogs don't speek doesn't mean they are not smart. A few Balrogs knew to get out of Beleriand during the War of Wrath, the dragons just flew out to be destroyed by the Valar. The Balrogs definatly have wills of their own, where as the Dragons probably were wholly under the power of Melkor, at least at first.

I agree entirely with the part about Balrogs speaking. However, some Dragons were also smart enough to get out of Beleriand, or there would have been no Smaug. Ancalagon's group did not fly out to be destroyed by the Valar, they drove the host of the Valar back, they were (or some of them were) destroyed by Earendil and the Great Eagles. While we're on that we don't know that some of the Great Eagles (who apparently had Maiar spirits) were not also killed in this battle. Dragon's most certainly had a will of their own. Remember that Glaurung disobeyed Morgoth by appearing too early (and almost breaking the Seige of Angband). Glaurung is also spoken of gratifing his own malice in his tormenting of Turin, not just the malice of his master. We never hear one word (except for the escape at the end, which seems to have been something of a general rout) of Balrogs doing anything disobedient or particularly independent.

*Whew!* I think I'll stop now!

P.S. Not that I am totally convinced that Dragons were more powerful than Balrogs, but I did not want Dragons to go down without somebody trying to defend them. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]
Drat my inability to spell, I must learn to proofread my posts!

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]