[The Saucepan Man]

Only if 1- Melkor and Ungoliant had suddenly taken to swimming, and 2- Ulmo, Osse, and Uinen refused to ensure their safety (in the unlikely event that Melkor suddenly decided he didn't hate water anymore, was no longer afraid of it, and had learned to control it overnight).

For all Olwe knew, Melkor could have twisted creatures of the sea and enlisted them into his service. Add to that the possibility of an ambush by Melkor's forces (Orcs, Balrogs and possibly more besides) at the point of landing, which could have led to the ships being boarded and any Teleri "taxi pilots" being slain. And why should Ulmo, Osse etc ensure the safe passage of the Noldor (even with Teleri assistance) when their actions went against the wishes and counsels of the Valar?

Like I keep saying, they had other options to exercise besides handing their ships over.

The only option which might have been acceptable to Olwe would have been to build more ships. But as I said, while Olwe might have been persuaded to agree to this, Feanor wasn't prepared to discuss the situation reasonably. He skulked off with the intention of coming back later in force and simply taking the ships.

Because he wasn't thinking at all, he was just going along with the Valar.

As I have said previously, there is nothing to suggest that Olwe didn't consider the matter independently and simply reach the same conclusion as the Valar.

If those in charge have too much influence in individual peoples' lives then those people lose their ability to make good decisions

And Feanor's decisions were good? [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Like others on this thread, I am not Feanor-bashing for the sake of it. I find him to be a compelling character, one of the most interesting in the Silmarillion. And I can understand (although not necessarily agree with) his actions (excepting of the burning of the ships at Losgar). I just don't believe that Olwe should bear any blame for the Kinslaying simply for refusing to hand over (or lend) the Teleri ships to Feanor. Had Feanor thought matters through deliberately and rationally and been prepared to enter into calm and reasoned discussion, it is quite possible that he could have found a way of getting back to ME without resorting to theft by force (such as persuading the Teleri to build ships especially for the purpose). Ah, but that was not in Feanor's nature. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]