The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Of Evil, Free will, and Fate (from 'Gollum')

Kiara · 11-27-2002, 01:50 PM

I have been skimming, so forgive me if this goes off track again or repeats something someone else has said. My thought is this, and it's related to the "how can black spots form on a pefectly white [object]" and someone along there replied that free-will is where the possibility even arises----

Well, what about an object that has become black? Is there any way for it to become pure again? (I know this is a re-statement of some of my previous questions and of those of others, though in illustrative form, but I plead indulgence as I am yet trying to wade my way through all this heavy and quickly satiating talk and therefore have to remind myself of what's going on).

My own thought is that it is impossible to make it white again, unless there is a new white object with which to exchange it (and obviously my illustration points to the need of a redeemer). It is interesting, to me, that Tolkien's work points to that need, and yet does not supply it. This is not because I feel that it is required in order to make his work complete, but rather because his world is so much reflective of ours, that I wonder if it could have continued on with out the "necessary" (in my opinion) intervention of Eru to redeem those that have no hope of "fixing" themselves.

I doubt that anyone could have truly resisted the ring, or from committing at least one "bad" or "evil" action in their lives, and yet would all their good out-weigh the one bad that they had done? It seems to me that the redemption of Tolkien's character is dependent solely upon their final decision in life--is their final action good or evil? Anyone following me?

What do you think?

11-27-2002, 01:50 PM	#9
Kiara Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: wish 'twere Ireland Posts: 50	I have been skimming, so forgive me if this goes off track again or repeats something someone else has said. My thought is this, and it's related to the "how can black spots form on a pefectly white [object]" and someone along there replied that free-will is where the possibility even arises---- Well, what about an object that has become black? Is there any way for it to become pure again? (I know this is a re-statement of some of my previous questions and of those of others, though in illustrative form, but I plead indulgence as I am yet trying to wade my way through all this heavy and quickly satiating talk and therefore have to remind myself of what's going on). My own thought is that it is impossible to make it white again, unless there is a new white object with which to exchange it (and obviously my illustration points to the need of a redeemer). It is interesting, to me, that Tolkien's work points to that need, and yet does not supply it. This is not because I feel that it is required in order to make his work complete, but rather because his world is so much reflective of ours, that I wonder if it could have continued on with out the "necessary" (in my opinion) intervention of Eru to redeem those that have no hope of "fixing" themselves. I doubt that anyone could have truly resisted the ring, or from committing at least one "bad" or "evil" action in their lives, and yet would all their good out-weigh the one bad that they had done? It seems to me that the redemption of Tolkien's character is dependent solely upon their final decision in life--is their final action good or evil? Anyone following me? What do you think? __________________ "What if you slept, and what if in your sleep you dreamed, and what if, in your dream, you went to paradise and there plucked a beautiful flower...and what if when you awoke, you held that flower in your hand? Ah, what then?"