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***Mithadan*** · 10-19-2000, 06:29 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 234</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who knows their trolls?

OK. Lets look at what the letter says, contrasted with what it seems to imply. The context of the letter is a discussion of: (1) whether evil could "create" a race such as orcs/trolls, concluding that evil cannot "create; and (2) whether orcs/trolls have souls.

The quote I provided begins with JRRT questioning whether Trolls have souls and ends with him noting that they speak which at least implies they do (and that if he had it to do over, maybe they would not speak). This is secondary to this discussion.

The letter clearly SAYS that William, Bert, et al. were Stone Trolls and that this variety becomes stone when exposed to sunlight. The letter also SAYS there were "other races of Trolls" whose origins are different from Stone Trolls.

The IMPLICATION is that Stone Trolls revert to stone when exposed to sunlight (perhaps because they are soulless constructs), and that the "other races" having other origins (and perhaps souls) do not revert to stone.

Now this is merely the implication of the letter. And as has been discussed in detail in this thread, there are other quotes from LoTR and Silm. which could be interpreted to support either position. This is probably one of those details which cannot be authoritatively resolved. JRRT claimed that every word he used was carefully considered. But I would point out that JRRT evolved the Silm over a period of 50 years and wrote LoTR during the span of 15 years, but appears to have written the appendices in a very short time.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

10-19-2000, 06:29 AM	#76
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,394	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight Posts: 234</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Who knows their trolls? OK. Lets look at what the letter says, contrasted with what it seems to imply. The context of the letter is a discussion of: (1) whether evil could "create" a race such as orcs/trolls, concluding that evil cannot "create; and (2) whether orcs/trolls have souls. The quote I provided begins with JRRT questioning whether Trolls have souls and ends with him noting that they speak which at least implies they do (and that if he had it to do over, maybe they would not speak). This is secondary to this discussion. The letter clearly SAYS that William, Bert, et al. were Stone Trolls and that this variety becomes stone when exposed to sunlight. The letter also SAYS there were "other races of Trolls" whose origins are different from Stone Trolls. The IMPLICATION is that Stone Trolls revert to stone when exposed to sunlight (perhaps because they are soulless constructs), and that the "other races" having other origins (and perhaps souls) do not revert to stone. Now this is merely the implication of the letter. And as has been discussed in detail in this thread, there are other quotes from LoTR and Silm. which could be interpreted to support either position. This is probably one of those details which cannot be authoritatively resolved. JRRT claimed that every word he used was carefully considered. But I would point out that JRRT evolved the Silm over a period of 50 years and wrote LoTR during the span of 15 years, but appears to have written the appendices in a very short time. --Mithadan-- "The Silmarils with living light were kindled clear, and waxing bright shone like stars that in the North above the reek of earth leap forth." </p> __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.