The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - FOTR

12-26-2001, 06:29 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 2. No disrespect but did we see the same film? Frodo offers the Ring to Gandalf, Galadriel and Aragorn who all refuse with a struggle. Include in this the performance of Bean and I think it highlighted the danger of the Ring very well. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But it's almost an aside. Compared to the book this aspect is muted. In the book it is almost over-stressed, there must be at least 10 occassions where one of the above refuse the ring. There are, to my mind 3 key scenes about the desire the ring induces:1. Saruman's rant at Gandalf. The point where he goes 'Why not? The Ruling ring' and his true intentions are unmasked. Removed.2. The scene with Galadriel's mirror. Done okayish but she did not mention that she had long thought about getting the ruling ring.3. Boromir's scene at the end, where he starts talkinng and you can almost see the starshells of madness in his eyes. The point is he starts calm and works him self up, bent on ther desire if the ring. This was messed up. The problem with Boromir was that he had all the subtly of a sharp axe. This isn't the Boromir of the books, it's one drawn in a big black marker so the US audience can see that he is a Bad Guy. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> * Do you remember the scene where Boromir is playing with Merry and Pippin? Where he comforts Gimli at Balins tomb? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not enough to alter the perception of him. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> His conversation with Aragorn in Lorien? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Over laboured. Still painting him as so obviously going to take the ring. Subtly is needed - to represent the creeping doubts and desires in Boromirs heart. Not hit over the head with a sledge hammer! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> His fight to save the hobbits at the end? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Makes no sense. He was obviously the bad guy from the start, so why the sudden redemption? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> * Through the film it was clear to see Frodo the innocent change to Frodo in despair. I thought this was one of the best done parts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My question is still this: where was Frodo the Brave? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 3. Aragorn - The problem here was that the character was just not given the time to build. More time with the hobbits was needed between Bree and Rivendell to show how the love between them grows. I thought Vigo did a good job from a representational aspect but wasn't given enough time to develop. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Didn't find Aragorn too bad per se, it was the whole denying his line that really ****ed me off. It was such an unneccesary change and so at odds with the Aragorn of the book. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Boromir - I loved Beans Boromir. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My issue wasn't with Bean, but with the script and direction. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> His lust for the Ring was obvious <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My point. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Gandalf - Apart from the times you mention where he seems unsure of himself, I thought Gandalf was great. His swift mood swings were in there, his love for the hobbits, his wise words, his anger, his strength was all there for me. The only thing I can think of is that PJ tried to portray Gandalf as under Saruman but to such an extent that sometimes he verged on the bumbling fool. Also this may have been done so that those who haven't read the book will see the drastic change in Gandalf when he returns. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But he's still not Obi Wan Kenobi. Watch it again. Watch him hang on, look at Frodo and then /throw/ himself offa that Bridge. At this point I hit catatonia. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Sauron - This scene was a flashback to an earlier age and so not from the LOTR book specifically. While I didn't like it, again, it was visually stunning. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But once you have made that image, you are stuck with it. People see it the rest of the film. Pluas what was all that blaoney about Sauron not having corporal form? He must have Gollum says something along the lines of 'Yes, he only has 4 fingers on one hand. But that is all he needs'. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 4. Can't say much on your points here as they have been beaten with a stick too many times before. One thing though that you said about the Ringwraiths during the day. What did you mean by this? They certainly travelled during the day, they weren't vampires. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>At the flight to the Ford. Yes they could travel during the day, but all save their leader were greatly affected by the sun. The book states late afternoon, I always had in mind a red sky. But the film semed to be at the middle of the day. I admit I could be wrong over this. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Its not perfect but its a fair crack and I'm glad I went to see it. There's no point in biting off your nose to spite your face as they say down Hobbiton way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I desparately wanted to like this film. You've no idea how much I tried. I'm even going to give it a second crack. But no, I just couldn't <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It dosen't make it a bad film because its not how you wanted it to be, it does make it a bad representation of the book however, there is a difference. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It was to slow paced as an action flick. I don't think I'd have liked it even if I hadn't read the book. Plus what is all this 'It's a film..' blarney. It's meant to be Lord of The Rings. I think it's ok I should test it against this expectation.

12-26-2001, 06:29 AM	#6
kensei Guest Posts: n/a	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>2. No disrespect but did we see the same film? Frodo offers the Ring to Gandalf, Galadriel and Aragorn who all refuse with a struggle. Include in this the performance of Bean and I think it highlighted the danger of the Ring very well.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But it's almost an aside. Compared to the book this aspect is muted. In the book it is almost over-stressed, there must be at least 10 occassions where one of the above refuse the ring. There are, to my mind 3 key scenes about the desire the ring induces:<P>1. Saruman's rant at Gandalf. The point where he goes 'Why not? The Ruling ring' and his true intentions are unmasked. Removed.<P>2. The scene with Galadriel's mirror. Done okayish but she did not mention that she had long thought about getting the ruling ring.<P>3. Boromir's scene at the end, where he starts talkinng and you can almost see the starshells of madness in his eyes. The point is he starts calm and works him self up, bent on ther desire if the ring.<BR>This was messed up. The problem with Boromir was that he had all the subtly of a sharp axe. This isn't the Boromir of the books, it's one drawn in a big black marker so the US audience can see that he is a Bad Guy. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>* Do you remember the scene where Boromir is playing with Merry and Pippin? Where he comforts Gimli at Balins tomb? <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not enough to alter the perception of him. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>His conversation with Aragorn in Lorien?<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Over laboured. Still painting him as so obviously going to take the ring. Subtly is needed - to represent the creeping doubts and desires in Boromirs heart. Not hit over the head with a sledge hammer!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>His fight to save the hobbits at the end? <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Makes no sense. He was obviously the bad guy from the start, so why the sudden redemption?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>* Through the film it was clear to see Frodo the innocent change to Frodo in despair. I thought this was one of the best done parts.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My question is still this: where was Frodo the Brave?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>3. <P>Aragorn - The problem here was that the character was just not given the time to build. More time with the hobbits was needed between Bree and Rivendell to show how the love between them grows. I thought Vigo did a good job from a representational aspect but wasn't given enough time to develop.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Didn't find Aragorn too bad per se, it was the whole denying his line that really ****ed me off. It was such an unneccesary change and so at odds with the Aragorn of the book.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>Boromir - I loved Beans Boromir. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My issue wasn't with Bean, but with the script and direction.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>His lust for the Ring was obvious <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My point.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>Gandalf - Apart from the times you mention where he seems unsure of himself, I thought Gandalf was great. His swift mood swings were in there, his love for the hobbits, his wise words, his anger, his strength was all there for me. The only thing I can think of is that PJ tried to portray Gandalf as under Saruman but to such an extent that sometimes he verged on the bumbling fool. Also this may have been done so that those who haven't read the book will see the drastic change in Gandalf when he returns.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But he's still not Obi Wan Kenobi. Watch it again. Watch him hang on, look at Frodo and then /throw/ himself offa that Bridge. At this point I hit catatonia.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>Sauron - This scene was a flashback to an earlier age and so not from the LOTR book specifically. While I didn't like it, again, it was visually stunning.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But once you have made that image, you are stuck with it. People see it the rest of the film. Pluas what was all that blaoney about Sauron not having corporal form? He must have Gollum says something along the lines of 'Yes, he only has 4 fingers on one hand. But that is all he needs'. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>4. Can't say much on your points here as they have been beaten with a stick too many times before. One thing though that you said about the Ringwraiths during the day. What did you mean by this? They certainly travelled during the day, they weren't vampires.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>At the flight to the Ford. Yes they could travel during the day, but all save their leader were greatly affected by the sun. The book states late afternoon, I always had in mind a red sky. But the film semed to be at the middle of the day. I admit I could be wrong over this.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>Its not perfect but its a fair crack and I'm glad I went to see it. There's no point in biting off your nose to spite your face as they say down Hobbiton way. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I desparately wanted to like this film. You've no idea how much I tried. I'm even going to give it a second crack. But no, I just couldn't<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><BR>It dosen't make it a bad film because its not how you wanted it to be, it does make it a bad representation of the book however, there is a difference. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It was to slow paced as an action flick. I don't think I'd have liked it even if I hadn't read the book. <BR>Plus what is all this 'It's a film..' blarney. It's meant to be Lord of The Rings. I think it's ok I should test it against this expectation.