[Nils]

I do not think that was Gwaihir's point at all. He was stating that Iluvatar understands every mood and every type of thought that lies within his creations. Surely every type of mood and every type of thought is reflected somewhere in his mind, the source of his creation.

I can't get around the fact that this will logically mean that Eru is in part evil, based on Eru's own definition of evil. That the only way Eru' would not be evil would be if Eru changes the rules.

In other words, Eru is an evil dictator. Which is the way many see God, but I'm not one of them. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

There is still that little part that is different enough from what I am saying that I can't agree

While the Ainur may not have each individually acquired on "component" of Eru's being, surely they gleaned from his mind and his inner thought a good deal.

I believe this is that little part.

Why is this surely the case?

They were influenced by him as his creations and as his labourers, living for ages upon ages in a world first conceived by him. They had no other source of personality definition but Eru and Ea, their Creator and His Creation.

So you don't believe in free will and that each of us is totally responsible for what we do.

It is entirely possible that Eru created beings that are totally distinct. They are a seperate creation, given the ability to sub-create.

Each Vala loves a different part of the world, and each has vastly different character traits (silent Mandos, hearty and jovial Tulkas, stern and subtle Aule, etc.). Surely this is some indication that different facets of the mind of Iluvatar were passed onto the Ainur.

Or they could just be their seperate personalities. Their personalities tied into the sub-creative power given to them by Eru.

In him the seed of 'evil' lived, planted there at the beginning from somewhere deep in the heart and thought of Iluvatar.

Why must this be the case? Why can't Melkor choose to rebel against Eru's designs on his own?

From him all evil things grew

No, he was the example of rebellion. He was the first to rebel. Each individual spirit that rebelled against Eru's designs simply followed Melkor's example. Melkor did not 'make them do it'. The sub-created did not have that power over any other sub-creation.

it was he who corrupted Sauron, the 'Lesser Angel', if you will, the Maia.

No, Melkor was the example, but he could not corrupt them. Each one had to choose to follow Melkor's example. Each one corrupted his/her self.

It was he who broke the minds of and corrupted the Elves or Men (depending on what source you decide to look at) and 'created' the orcs.

As far as the incarnates go, their bodies were corrupted, which led to their souls being corrupted. They still had the chance to redeem themselves after their fear were seperated from the hroar. Melkor had no such direct influence on the Ealar (Ainur).

In my mind, nothing started out 'evil', but when Iluvatar conceived of the possibility of evil, of rebellion against his will, then it became a reality, and thus was bestowed (knowingly or just by chance) upon one of the Ainur, Melkor, who just so happened to be the most powerful.

Is it that Eru forced the most powerful to fall (included is Feanor) or is it that great power is very seductive and leads to the fall?