Thread: Inherent Evil
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Old 08-01-2003, 11:42 AM   #62
Nils
Wight
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 129
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see what you are saying, Nils, but I still think you are reading my words out of context. I do not believe that Eru is an 'evil dictator'. Far from it.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that believed God to be an evil dictator. I just meant that the point of view you are taking can logically lead to that conclusion.
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It is impossible to create without influencing, just as it is impossible to observe without changing. His creations would inherently be influenced by him.
Perhaps what is impossible for us, is possible for God. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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The personality is the direct result of the environment. Since they were created and taught by Iluvatar, and since they lived in a world conceived by him, their underlying personalities would reflect his own ideas and his creations.
Personality is not just enviroment. It is a combination of many factors, which include something we are born with and how we react to the enviroment. If by world you mean Ea, then I must submit that the Melkor's rebellion had a hand in the creation of that world. I guess it could be seen as a self-fulfilling prophecy. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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Melkor was turned to evil because of the disposition he developed as a Child of Iluvatar. How else could Melkor have risen up in rebellion against Iluvatar's theme?
Free Will, which is a concept that Tolkien clearly states is a part of his myth.
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He did not have any previous knowledge of rebellion and did not have any influences outside of the Halls of Iluvatar. Therefore it must have been an affect of Iluvatar on Melkor that he learned how to rebel.
He was the most powerful of the Ainur and he did have interaction with them. Perhaps he developed the pride and arrogance to believe that he should have his own way. This pride, which he was not created with, but a possibility to for, was his own doing, not Eru's.
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A child does not learn how to speak unless they hear others speak, to walk unless others walk, etc. Since Iluvatar was the only teacher the Valar had, their personalities were reflections (distorted or blown up though they may have been) of parts of his own.
As I stated earlier, the Ainur also interacted with each other and learned from these experiences. They were not just programmed by Eru.
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A baby cannot simply wake up and decide the course it will take.
Eru did not create babies. The Ainur would be equivalent to Adam, a full grown man. As far as I can tell from the text, the Ainur were created with the ability to communicate.
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Children are not born with a certain disposition,
I couldn't disagree with you more. From the time my children were born they were very different.
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Only when the background is completely laid and personality moulded can an individual truly assert free will over their lives.
Considering the fact that we are always growing and our personality is always changing, I must disagree with this statement.
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