Thread: Inherent Evil
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Old 08-03-2003, 10:05 AM   #79
Nils
Wight
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 129
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Sting

Quote:
Your definition of 'component' is obviously very different from our own. You see the fact that Iluvatar can conceive of and fully understands evil as a flaw.
But Gwaihir goes beyond saying that Iluvatar can conceive of and fully understand evil. Gwaihir has gone on to say:

Alright, but then why do you assume that because Melkor's mind is contained within Illuvatar's larger intellect meant that Illuvatar was evil?

Gwaihir says that Melkor's mind is contained within Iluvatar's mind. That is more than just knowledge of evil. That actually contains evil itself.

Do you support this position or not?

Quote:
His mind reflects all ways of thought and every possible idea formed in the minds of his creations.
Yes and no. Yes God is all knowing, but each person is an individual and not a sub-component of God. You seem to be very close to the line of this issue. Although you may not be going that far, Gwahir is.

Quote:
Since Melkor was rebellious against Iluvatar's plans, Iluvatar therefore must understand rebellion and recognize evil within his world. This is not to say that he is evil or that he condones evil. He simply understands the workings of the mind of Melkor and all other evil beings within Ea.
If this is all you are saying, then you and Gwahir are not on the same page. I have no problem with your understanding.
Quote:
Since Melkor recognized the potential for rebellion and seized the opportunity to rebel against Eru during the singing of the Themes, it can be concluded that Eru conceived of the possibility of rebellion against his will and recognized this as 'evil' before Melkor.
If Eru created the Flame Imperishable, then yes he conceived the idea of free will. At the very least, Eru knew what he was doing when he used the Flame Imperishable.
Quote:
The creation of an All-Knowing Being such as Eru cannot think of rebellion without the Creator conceiving of the idea as well.
I agree. In order to give free will, God must first understand free will. After all, that is what the ability to rebel actually is.
Quote:
What I am saying is, a god can conceive of and understand evil, and evil can be a part of the mind of a god, without that god ever acting or thinking in a way that would be considered 'evil.'
I agree with you. I would use different terms to describe what you are describing, but I agree. As I said earlier, I don't believe you are describing what Gwahir is describing, as I quoted earlier in this post.
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