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Bêthberry · 12-22-2002, 09:52 AM

Thank you, Thenamir and Birdie for noting my comment on Kurosawa. For me, the battle at Helm's Deep did not compare well because in TTT there were several disjarring moments which, instead of in some way highlighting or extending the ethos of the battle, they detracted from it. I doubt PJ wanted to do a truly epic battle scene.Legolas and Gimli keeping track of their counts was one. Yes, I recognize this kind of behaviour in wartime, but I don't think this particular point of characterization was done in terms of a serious battle. It was silly cavalier derring-do, like Han Solo's quick quip to Luke, "Great! Don't get cocky, kid."Gimli and Aragorn outside the gate joking about tossing a dwarf was another. Again, a discordant intrusion had this been intended to be a tragic battle scene. A cheap laugh.Gandalf the White arriving on his rearing charger with the cavalry. As Birdie put it in a PM to me, "Hi-ho Silverfax"--that's a reference to the old American TV show of the Lone Ranger, for those of you too young to have heard of the show. So, for me, Gandalf the Grey, this arrival of the wizard held no reminders of Cecil B. DeMille's biblical epics. I burst out loud with derisive laughter. Moses I would have much preferred. We each see what we each see.The issue appears to be one of how PJ conceived of the battle. It isn't All Quiet on the Western Front. Or even Saving Private Ryan. Or Gallipoli Or Band of Brothers. It was intended to thrill as a visual spectacle and adventure but not stir us profoundly--give us a little sense of battle, but not too much, so we aren't truly twisted dry of emotion and left drained. These intrusions into a serious tone are part of the popular movie ethos. We're working always with Star Wars even if it occasionally appears that we are being given something different (the visual allusion to Triumph of the Will when Saruman looks out upon his army at Isengard).This is an amusement park ride. Thrilling and well done and vastly fun, but candy for short (or tired) attention spans and not food for thoughtful contemplation. In the end, TTT has little to do with stirring in us profound awareness of Tolkien's issues of good and evil. It is a safe ride and not a perilous journey.Bethberry[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

12-22-2002, 09:52 AM	#39
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Thank you, <B>Thenamir</B> and <B>Birdie</B> for noting my comment on Kurosawa. For me, the battle at Helm's Deep did not compare well because in TTT there were several disjarring moments which, instead of in some way highlighting or extending the ethos of the battle, they detracted from it. I doubt PJ wanted to do a truly epic battle scene.<P>Legolas and Gimli keeping track of their counts was one. Yes, I recognize this kind of behaviour in wartime, but I don't think this particular point of characterization was done in terms of a serious battle. It was silly cavalier derring-do, like Han Solo's quick quip to Luke, "Great! Don't get cocky, kid."<P>Gimli and Aragorn outside the gate joking about tossing a dwarf was another. Again, a discordant intrusion had this been intended to be a tragic battle scene. A cheap laugh.<P>Gandalf the White arriving on his rearing charger with the cavalry. As Birdie put it in a PM to me, "Hi-ho Silverfax"--that's a reference to the old American TV show of the Lone Ranger, for those of you too young to have heard of the show. So, for me, <B>Gandalf the Grey</B>, this arrival of the wizard held no reminders of Cecil B. DeMille's biblical epics. I burst out loud with derisive laughter. Moses I would have much preferred. We each see what we each see.<P>The issue appears to be one of how PJ conceived of the battle. It isn't <I>All Quiet on the Western Front</I>. Or even <I>Saving Private Ryan</I>. Or <I>Gallipoli</I> Or <I>Band of Brothers</I>. <P>It was intended to thrill as a visual spectacle and adventure but not stir us profoundly--give us a little sense of battle, but not too much, so we aren't truly twisted dry of emotion and left drained. These intrusions into a serious tone are part of the popular movie ethos. We're working always with <I>Star Wars</I> even if it occasionally appears that we are being given something different (the visual allusion to <I>Triumph of the Will</I> when Saruman looks out upon his army at Isengard).<P>This is an amusement park ride. Thrilling and well done and vastly fun, but candy for short (or tired) attention spans and not food for thoughtful contemplation. In the end, TTT has little to do with stirring in us profound awareness of Tolkien's issues of good and evil. It is a safe ride and not a perilous journey.<P>Bethberry<p>[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ] __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.