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Man-of-the-Wold · 01-27-2003, 02:25 AM

Excellent quote, Lindil. So, you did mean, DorWinion, which I think is simply a word from HoME III (and IV?) that got recycled, somewhat, and that The Hobbit's "Dorwinion" would have been much too far from Beleriand to be truly one and the same.

The quote is not directly linked to "Dorwionion," however. And, just because barrels went down the hole to Laketown, doesn't mean when full that all of them had orignated from that direction, or from much further down the River Running, per se. I'd presume the Lakemen took or bought any empty barrel, regardless of origin, and that it was not like a bottle deposit system. Used, but reusable containers like that would have belonged to the Elves, and have had value readibly recouped through middlemen. That's the way such businesses have worked for a long time. My family's did.

So, while doubtful, Lorien wine suppliers are not impossible, even if infrequent. Barrels could have been moved overland along the Old Forest Road to the River Running. But would full barrels have even been any more easily transported upstream on a river, compared to purely overland methods? Drawn barges might have worked well, I suppose.

In any case, I've seen references that (perhaps incorrectly) establish the Dorwinions as an eastward-flung remnant of the Northmen, and I'm sticking with it for now.

But I think your citation gives the definite suggestion of East-Elven kinfolk to the south, but probably farther east than Thranduil's realm, which would also support my position of the "relatively" more eastern/potentially more Avarian character of those Wood-Elves.

But even if we use the River Running as our point of reference, it travels very far to the SE before getting to Dorwinion, which I think would be more than "distant" enough to be the lands of Men so cited.

Therefore, I surmise that the elfin "kinfolk" in question might have dwelt south of the River Running at a more intermediate location, conceivably not really far to the east, but rather near the eastern eaves of middle Mirkwood.

01-27-2003, 02:25 AM	#26
Man-of-the-Wold Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin Posts: 239	Excellent quote, Lindil. So, you did mean, DorWinion, which I think is simply a word from HoME III (and IV?) that got recycled, somewhat, and that The Hobbit's "Dorwinion" would have been much too far from Beleriand to be truly one and the same. The quote is not directly linked to "Dorwionion," however. And, just because barrels went down the hole to Laketown, doesn't mean when full that all of them had orignated from that direction, or from much further down the River Running, per se. I'd presume the Lakemen took or bought any empty barrel, regardless of origin, and that it was not like a bottle deposit system. Used, but reusable containers like that would have belonged to the Elves, and have had value readibly recouped through middlemen. That's the way such businesses have worked for a long time. My family's did. So, while doubtful, Lorien wine suppliers are not impossible, even if infrequent. Barrels could have been moved overland along the Old Forest Road to the River Running. But would full barrels have even been any more easily transported upstream on a river, compared to purely overland methods? Drawn barges might have worked well, I suppose. In any case, I've seen references that (perhaps incorrectly) establish the Dorwinions as an eastward-flung remnant of the Northmen, and I'm sticking with it for now. But I think your citation gives the definite suggestion of East-Elven kinfolk to the south, but probably farther east than Thranduil's realm, which would also support my position of the "relatively" more eastern/potentially more Avarian character of those Wood-Elves. But even if we use the River Running as our point of reference, it travels very far to the SE before getting to Dorwinion, which I think would be more than "distant" enough to be the lands of Men so cited. Therefore, I surmise that the elfin "kinfolk" in question might have dwelt south of the River Running at a more intermediate location, conceivably not really far to the east, but rather near the eastern eaves of middle Mirkwood. __________________ The hoes unrecked in the fields were flung, __ and fallen ladders in the long grass lay __ of the lush orchards; every tree there turned __ its tangled head and eyed them secretly, __ and the ears listened of the nodding grasses; __ though noontide glowed on land and leaf, __ their limbs were chilled.