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**lindil** · 01-27-2003, 02:40 PM

denethor had figured out [according to the LotR appendices] that Thorongil was Northern Dunedain and Aragorn peceiving his animosity left Gondor right after a succsesful raid on Umbar. Later in the RotK, he accuses Gandalf of trying to bring up a ranger of the North 'to supplant him'.

Denthor would have rightly guessed that Thorngil with his 'air of nobility' was Arthedainian royalty, and also would have known that if anyone had 'the sword that was broken' [it was known to Boromir in the Council of Elrond]it would be Thorongil.

Plus Denethor had the palantir and probably saw it and him in Rohan long after he had figured it out anyway [he clearly implies that he used it to know what had already transpired in Rohan]. I would imagine the statuary in Gondor would have depicted in accurate detail the distinctive characteristics of Narsil.

On a related [ but still way off-topic [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] note] Denethor may have allowed Boromir to go, hoping for real aid in the war, recalling Thorongil's successful assalt on Umbar. it could be that instead of recieving troops from the North [from either the Dunedain or Rivendell, both of whom he knew existed] and was incensed when only Thorongil, Aragorn and Elf, Dwarf and 2 halflings [all seen in the Palantir] came south. Essentially to his mind, Thorongil may have been perceived as more interested in claiming the throne during war than bringing in serious re-inforcments.
The last time Arnor and Gondor had had official communication was probably the help Earanur took to Battle the Witch-King.

So the North could be seen, in Denethor's eyes to be in debt to the South, and now the South was asking for help [via Boromir] in as direct a fashion as [their substantial] pride would allow.

[ January 27, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

01-27-2003, 02:40 PM	#33
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	denethor had figured out [according to the LotR appendices] that Thorongil was Northern Dunedain and Aragorn peceiving his animosity left Gondor right after a succsesful raid on Umbar. Later in the RotK, he accuses Gandalf of trying to bring up a ranger of the North 'to supplant him'. Denthor would have rightly guessed that Thorngil with his 'air of nobility' was Arthedainian royalty, and also would have known that if anyone had 'the sword that was broken' [it was known to Boromir in the Council of Elrond]it would be Thorongil. Plus Denethor had the palantir and probably saw it and him in Rohan long after he had figured it out anyway [he clearly implies that he used it to know what had already transpired in Rohan]. I would imagine the statuary in Gondor would have depicted in accurate detail the distinctive characteristics of Narsil. On a related [ but still way off-topic [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] note] Denethor may have allowed Boromir to go, hoping for real aid in the war, recalling Thorongil's successful assalt on Umbar. it could be that instead of recieving troops from the North [from either the Dunedain or Rivendell, both of whom he knew existed] and was incensed when only Thorongil, Aragorn and Elf, Dwarf and 2 halflings [all seen in the Palantir] came south. Essentially to his mind, Thorongil may have been perceived as more interested in claiming the throne during war than bringing in serious re-inforcments. The last time Arnor and Gondor had had official communication was probably the help Earanur took to Battle the Witch-King. So the North could be seen, in Denethor's eyes to be in debt to the South, and now the South was asking for help [via Boromir] in as direct a fashion as [their substantial] pride would allow. [ January 27, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.