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littlemanpoet · 10-02-2002, 01:58 PM

Thank you, Child, for the evidence. I do agree that the Celtic madness is not to be found in Tolkien.

I do prefer the root and tree analogy as closer at heart to Tolkien's creative process.

Having not progressed so far in my studies of history, Rimbaud and Child probably know more than I. Still, I think a distinction is in order between class consciousness on one hand and [i]clan/tribe loyalties[i] on the other. One need not necessarily talk about this in terms of feudalism, either. Class consciousness grew out of the rise of the Middle Class through mercantilism, I believe. Until there was a middle class of any kind in northern Europe, clan/tribe loyalties (such as Frodo and Sam) did not have any concern for class. So I'd agree with Child.

10-02-2002, 01:58 PM	#33
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Thank you, Child, for the evidence. I do agree that the Celtic madness is not to be found in Tolkien. I do prefer the root and tree analogy as closer at heart to Tolkien's creative process. Having not progressed so far in my studies of history, Rimbaud and Child probably know more than I. Still, I think a distinction is in order between class consciousness on one hand and [i]clan/tribe loyalties[i] on the other. One need not necessarily talk about this in terms of feudalism, either. Class consciousness grew out of the rise of the Middle Class through mercantilism, I believe. Until there was a middle class of any kind in northern Europe, clan/tribe loyalties (such as Frodo and Sam) did not have any concern for class. So I'd agree with Child.