[Kalimac]

Thanks for the kind words, everyone . This is a nice mind-bending thread (in a good way, of course).<P>Orual, I'm still not totally sure. It's true that Elrond was right there at the mountain, but he was still Isildur's friend and ally. Whether he was one mile or one thousand miles away from the mountain, there's no way he could bring himself to forcibly take the Ring from him, so for all practical purposes it didn't really matter where they were. Just for an example - suppose Bilbo and Gandalf, in whatever unlikely twist of fate, had also ended up on Sauron's doorstep, right outside Mount Doom, and Bilbo had the Ring? Would Gandalf have taken it by force or pitched Bilbo in? I really can't see it happening. Middle-Earth inhabitants just don't seem to be proponents of the "greatest good for the greatest number" doctrine. It's true that Elrond was probably kicking himself afterwards "So close! So close!" But even if he had it to do over again, I just can't picture Elrond throwing Isildur overboard.<P>But I still think he could have used force. Not necessarily with his body, but maybe getting a wind to blow Isildur over the edge of the crack, or something like that. Of course, that would assume that the winds of Mordor would obey him, and they might not be as ready and willing to do so as the river of Rivendell...