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**lindil** · 12-10-2003, 02:37 PM

'I cannot imagine Arwen in anything more than a Rivendell cameo, but I might be pleasantly surprised.' How about a non-canonical scene of Arwen babysitting her foster brother, and looking at him with, well... perhaps we better just leaver her out...Gilthalion, thanks for the chronological markers.Eurytus, privacy is one thing, relatively major changes to a masterpeice is another. Book to film conversions have never been judged along the lines of symphoic/musical variations. For starters, musical theme variations are within the same genre - so the variation can in no [comprable]way become a definitive statement of the work, and secondly with variations in music, they are a dime a dozen in a sense. A film version of LotR is on the otherhand so massive an undertaking that we will almost certainly not see another attempt for a couple of decades. So by a sort of financial default, only some one like Bill Gates or maybe George Lucas could afford to do another LotR anytime soon. So like it or not, PJ and his 'LotR' [I shall endeavor to use quoets for his version from now on as a matter of priciple] has in a major way re-shaped the matrix by which the LotR is experienced as a written work for the vast majority of readers. CJRT is understandably reticient to countenance such.On the other hand, had he been involved and used what little leverage the estate might have had in terms of input, perhaps PJ would have felt more beholden to reproduce the actual LotR, and not a 'Variations on LotR Themes'.Yes, CJRT has put out a ton of expensive [ in HB] books fo his fathers writings, but he also worked with incredible diligence and persisitence to deal with an unbelievably chaoitic manuscript inheritance. I for one am incredibly glad he did it. In his shoes, I would have been lucky to put out a Silm and a fraction of the post LotR writings and packed the rest off to the Museum. Btw, he has graciously ceded publishing responsibilities of the remaining linguistic material [supposedly thousands of pages!] to Vinyar Tengwar who publishes most of it [ PArma Eldalmberon does the rest[ for 2.oo$ an edition. THe Osanwe-KEnta for only 2$, not bad at all. HEck, it was probably not even asked of CJRT what the price would be on the books anyway.As for the inevitability of a Hobbit film with or without CJRT's blessing, I would not be so confidant, if the stories are true about him writing his own son out of the decision making picture [not too mention never seeing that son's children again?!] then I would not at all doubt if he has engineeered a way to keep all other non- LotR, material away from movies.In some instances this is a shame as Smith, Farmer, Roverandom, etc could all be made into delightful productions I imagine.I have heard that the Silm is def off limits. A relief in some ways as we might see Liv Tyler recast as Luthien ...But as the Hobbit is already out there might as well sign over rights to someone who promises to reproduce it faithfully.And to whoever may get the rights, the could establish most of PJ's 'feel' by hiring most of his crew, especially Howe and Lee for design. Just not Phillipa and Fran!!!

12-10-2003, 02:37 PM	#28
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	'I cannot imagine Arwen in anything more than a Rivendell cameo, but I might be pleasantly surprised.' How about a non-canonical scene of Arwen babysitting her foster brother, and looking at him with, well... perhaps we better just leaver her out...<P>Gilthalion, thanks for the chronological markers.<P>Eurytus, privacy is one thing, relatively major changes to a masterpeice is another. <P>Book to film conversions have never been judged along the lines of symphoic/musical variations. For starters, musical theme variations are within the same genre - so the variation can in no [comprable]way become a definitive statement of the work, and secondly with variations in music, they are a dime a dozen in a sense. A film version of LotR is on the otherhand so massive an undertaking that we will almost certainly not see another attempt for a couple of decades. So by a sort of financial default, only some one like Bill Gates or maybe George Lucas could afford to do another LotR anytime soon. <P>So like it or not, PJ and his 'LotR' [I shall endeavor to use quoets for his version from now on as a matter of priciple] has in a major way re-shaped the matrix by which the LotR is experienced as a written work for the vast majority of readers. CJRT is understandably reticient to countenance such.<P>On the other hand, had he been involved and used what little leverage the estate might have had in terms of input, perhaps PJ would have felt more beholden to reproduce the actual LotR, and not a 'Variations on LotR Themes'.<P>Yes, CJRT has put out a ton of expensive [ in HB] books fo his fathers writings, but he also worked with incredible diligence and persisitence to deal with an unbelievably chaoitic manuscript inheritance. I for one am incredibly glad he did it. In his shoes, I would have been lucky to put out a Silm and a fraction of the post LotR writings and packed the rest off to the Museum. <P>Btw, he has graciously ceded publishing responsibilities of the remaining linguistic material [supposedly thousands of pages!] to Vinyar Tengwar who publishes most of it [ PArma Eldalmberon does the rest[ for 2.oo$ an edition. THe Osanwe-KEnta for only 2$, not bad at all. HEck, it was probably not even asked of CJRT what the price would be on the books anyway.<P>As for the inevitability of a Hobbit film with or without CJRT's blessing, I would not be so confidant, if the stories are true about him writing his own son out of the decision making picture [not too mention never seeing that son's children again?!] then I would not at all doubt if he has engineeered a way to keep all other non- LotR, material away from movies.<P>In some instances this is a shame as Smith, Farmer, Roverandom, etc could all be made into delightful productions I imagine.<P>I have heard that the Silm is def off limits. <P>A relief in some ways as we might see Liv Tyler recast as Luthien ...<P>But as the Hobbit is already out there might as well sign over rights to someone who promises to reproduce it faithfully.<P>And to whoever may get the rights, the could establish most of PJ's 'feel' by hiring most of his crew, especially Howe and Lee for design. Just not Phillipa and Fran!!! __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.