The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post

pandora · 12-17-2003, 08:54 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The intro, superb especially the depiction of Sauron as one of the Knights who say 'Ni'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The intro was a mistake but you are picking on technical problems here which are a result not of the director but of the budget. Indeed, I had always assumed that the only reason Bakshi put the intro material in, especially in the the form that he did was because he had no budget to do it right. I was very surprised therefore when Jackson repeated the mistake with a big budget. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Gandalf seems to like throwing rings into fires and quoting poetry. He never actually reads the fiery letters. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In the book he throws the ring into the fire but he does speak the words once in Rivendell. A simple piece of cimematic compression. Much more reasonable than having Gandalf go half-insane and start creeping about the Shire in thunderstorms. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Sam has apparently been eavesdropping (in the middle of a field!) because they have been talking about Elves and he loves Elves. Only one problem, they haven?t been talking about Elves at all. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>A minor continuity error, much less sever than having Frodo etc camp under the stone trolls and nobody mentioning it. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Saruman seemingly having his name changed to Aruman for the majority of the movie. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>God knows what that was about. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The depiction of Elves. ***? How big are their eyes. And what's with the 70?s porn star hair? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I bow to your superior knowledge of 70's porn-stars' hairstyles but generally the elves looked no better or worse than any other versions. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Aragorn, the mini-skirt wearing Native American,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh, you mean the Aragorn that looks like he's lived in the wilderness for years (a bit like a Native American, for example) and has a voice that you could believe would lead men into the jaws of death? I assume that you prefer the Mr No-Charisma that Jackson used. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Although since Elendil has never previously been mentioned we are none the wiser about what this actually means. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>More continuity problems; both versions are rife with them, eg The Old Forest reference in TTT. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The Balrog?!?! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It did alright for its time; the still graphics used in the depiction of Gandalf's battle with it made up for the slippers. Jackson's balrog was terrific (literally). But again we're talking technical issues, not directorial. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Pronouncing Celeborn as Keleborn.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which is the correct pronounciation, see appendix E. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The inexplicable battle between the Rohirrim and the Orcs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think Bakshi was going for a "Our champion fights your champion before the main battle" sort of thing that appears in some Celtic and Anglo-Saxon stories but it all went wrong. It still makes me laugh out loud at the idea that all the other orcs must have really hated that one that gets killed. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Why does Eowyn look like the Wicked Witch from Snow White? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Does it matter? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Magic ball lightening at Helm?s Deep. Nuff said. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Better than the sudden appearance of the Olympic-Torch Orc running in a conspicuous manner in front of a line of Elves with bows. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Frodo?s big ?the burden is heavy scene?. What does Sam do? Get up and start whistling of course! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I assumed Sam needed the toilet and was waiting for Frodo to shup up. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Love the way the orcs all retreat solely on the basis of a horn being blown. Before they even see the riders emerge. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>They fall back but the charge fails, which it should have. Given that Jackson's version had horses charging down a cliff face onto the waiting pikes of the orcs I don't think you can really claim it as an improvement. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Of course perhaps the biggest difference between Bakshi's LOTR and Jackson's is that PJ actually made a movie that people actually WANT to watch. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I did say that Bakshi's version was a failure and it does contain some awful moments. Jackson succeeded in making a flashy piece of fluff that sold well but as an adaptation it is a failure and as a film I think it's very weak even without comparison with the source material. There's no depth.The first hour of Bakshi covers FotR and does it better than Jackson by far (except where Jackson copies Bakshi). The rest is a total write-off apart from Gollum. I would have prefered Bakshi to have given up and simply binned the project once it was clear he did not have the resources to do it right. But I would also have prefered Jackson to dump it once he realised that he couldn't handle characterisation, pace or subtlety.Finally: why did you even come to this thread? Was there some reason you thought that a topic entitled "Topic: Crimes Against Tolkienity" under "Movies" was going to be a hymn of praise to Peter Jackson?

12-17-2003, 08:54 AM	#78
pandora Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 60	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The intro, superb especially the depiction of Sauron as one of the Knights who say 'Ni'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The intro was a mistake but you are picking on technical problems here which are a result not of the director but of the budget. Indeed, I had always assumed that the only reason Bakshi put the intro material in, especially in the the form that he did was because he had no budget to do it right. I was very surprised therefore when Jackson repeated the mistake with a big budget.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Gandalf seems to like throwing rings into fires and quoting poetry. He never actually reads the fiery letters. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In the book he throws the ring into the fire but he does speak the words once in Rivendell. A simple piece of cimematic compression. Much more reasonable than having Gandalf go half-insane and start creeping about the Shire in thunderstorms.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Sam has apparently been eavesdropping (in the middle of a field!) because they have been talking about Elves and he loves Elves. Only one problem, they haven?t been talking about Elves at all. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>A minor continuity error, much less sever than having Frodo etc camp under the stone trolls and nobody mentioning it.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Saruman seemingly having his name changed to Aruman for the majority of the movie. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>God knows what that was about.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The depiction of Elves. ***? How big are their eyes. And what's with the 70?s porn star hair? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I bow to your superior knowledge of 70's porn-stars' hairstyles but generally the elves looked no better or worse than any other versions.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Aragorn, the mini-skirt wearing Native American,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh, you mean the Aragorn that looks like he's lived in the wilderness for years (a bit like a Native American, for example) and has a voice that you could believe would lead men into the jaws of death? I assume that you prefer the Mr No-Charisma that Jackson used.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Although since Elendil has never previously been mentioned we are none the wiser about what this actually means. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>More continuity problems; both versions are rife with them, eg The Old Forest reference in TTT.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The Balrog?!?! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It did alright for its time; the still graphics used in the depiction of Gandalf's battle with it made up for the slippers. Jackson's balrog was terrific (literally). But again we're talking technical issues, not directorial.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Pronouncing Celeborn as Keleborn.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Which is the correct pronounciation, see appendix E.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The inexplicable battle between the Rohirrim and the Orcs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think Bakshi was going for a "Our champion fights your champion before the main battle" sort of thing that appears in some Celtic and Anglo-Saxon stories but it all went wrong. It still makes me laugh out loud at the idea that all the other orcs must have really hated that one that gets killed.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Why does Eowyn look like the Wicked Witch from Snow White? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Does it matter?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Magic ball lightening at Helm?s Deep. Nuff said. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Better than the sudden appearance of the Olympic-Torch Orc running in a conspicuous manner in front of a line of Elves with bows.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Frodo?s big ?the burden is heavy scene?. What does Sam do? Get up and start whistling of course! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I assumed Sam needed the toilet and was waiting for Frodo to shup up.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Love the way the orcs all retreat solely on the basis of a horn being blown. Before they even see the riders emerge. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>They fall back but the charge fails, which it should have. Given that Jackson's version had horses charging down a cliff face onto the waiting pikes of the orcs I don't think you can really claim it as an improvement.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Of course perhaps the biggest difference between Bakshi's LOTR and Jackson's is that PJ actually made a movie that people actually WANT to watch. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I did say that Bakshi's version was a failure and it does contain some awful moments. Jackson succeeded in making a flashy piece of fluff that sold well but as an adaptation it is a failure and as a film I think it's very weak even without comparison with the source material. There's no depth.<P>The first hour of Bakshi covers FotR and does it better than Jackson by far (except where Jackson copies Bakshi). The rest is a total write-off apart from Gollum. I would have prefered Bakshi to have given up and simply binned the project once it was clear he did not have the resources to do it right. But I would also have prefered Jackson to dump it once he realised that he couldn't handle characterisation, pace or subtlety.<P>Finally: why did you even come to this thread? Was there some reason you thought that a topic entitled "Topic: Crimes Against Tolkienity" under "Movies" was going to be a hymn of praise to Peter Jackson?