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Kronos · 01-07-2004, 02:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> what we were saying was not that the book *cannot* be interpreted in racist ways, merely that there's no rational grounds for it (Tolkien was not trying to promote an Aryan worldview, or whatever it's called nowadays) - and so it *should* not be interpreted as a brief for that sort of thing <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But I have seen many threads (not just this one) in which people get angry because Racists are claiming to see things that they like in the books, taking personal affront at it. My point is that whatever Tolkien was trying to promote is largely irrelevant. With Art it is all about the viewer/reader/whomever and their experiencing of said art.Also Tolkien may not have been trying to promote an Aryan worldview but that is basically what he ended up with really. When you boil it down to bare essentials the war in LOTR describes a good side of pretty much all white combatants against a bad side of mostly dark skinned combatants. It would be difficult to see how that would NOT appeal to racists. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> So if someone from one of those groups tells you that something is a commonly-known Atlantean reference, or that something else can be interpreted as a symbol for Aryanism, triple-check it. They could have made those facts up on the spot <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I did not get the Atlantean thing from any individual. It is a documented fact concerning the Nazi’s and in particular Himmler. He was obsessed with trying to find evidence to support his theory that the Aryan race originated in Atlantis (Thule as I seem to remember them calling it) and that there was evidence in their racial superiority to be found in that. From those believes flowed a lot of their theories concerning the need to keep the Aryan bloodline pure as they believed that individuals in whom that blood flowed to be superior.It is likewise a documented fact that Numenor is Tolkien’s Atlantis myth and that the inhabitants that retained the pure bloodline were “higher” and lived longer than lesser men.Again these are issues that Racists would find much in common with.I think that it is clear that there is material within the books that would appeal to racists and that, in fact, it does not require as much twisting as we would prefer it to.

01-07-2004, 02:19 AM	#34
Kronos Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: England Posts: 47	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> what we were saying was not that the book cannot be interpreted in racist ways, merely that there's no rational grounds for it (Tolkien was not trying to promote an Aryan worldview, or whatever it's called nowadays) - and so it should not be interpreted as a brief for that sort of thing <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But I have seen many threads (not just this one) in which people get angry because Racists are claiming to see things that they like in the books, taking personal affront at it.<BR>My point is that whatever Tolkien was trying to promote is largely irrelevant. With Art it is all about the viewer/reader/whomever and their experiencing of said art.<P>Also Tolkien may not have been trying to promote an Aryan worldview but that is basically what he ended up with really. When you boil it down to bare essentials the war in LOTR describes a good side of pretty much all white combatants against a bad side of mostly dark skinned combatants. It would be difficult to see how that would NOT appeal to racists.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> So if someone from one of those groups tells you that something is a commonly-known Atlantean reference, or that something else can be interpreted as a symbol for Aryanism, triple-check it. They could have made those facts up on the spot <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I did not get the Atlantean thing from any individual. It is a documented fact concerning the Nazi’s and in particular Himmler. He was obsessed with trying to find evidence to support his theory that the Aryan race originated in Atlantis (Thule as I seem to remember them calling it) and that there was evidence in their racial superiority to be found in that. From those believes flowed a lot of their theories concerning the need to keep the Aryan bloodline pure as they believed that individuals in whom that blood flowed to be superior.<P>It is likewise a documented fact that Numenor is Tolkien’s Atlantis myth and that the inhabitants that retained the pure bloodline were “higher” and lived longer than lesser men.<P>Again these are issues that Racists would find much in common with.<P>I think that it is clear that there is material within the books that would appeal to racists and that, in fact, it does not require as much twisting as we would prefer it to.