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Old 03-04-2004, 03:24 AM   #5
davem
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Addendum: Hope

When I said 'Men suffer in Hope. Elves suffer'. I was talking about Amdir , as opposed to Estel . In the Athrabeth Finrod distinguishes the two kinds of 'hope'. Amdir ('looking up') seems to be 'optimism', or belief that the world can be made better. Elves seem to lack this, especially the Elves of the Third Age - Elrond speaks of having lived three ages in the world, & having seen 'many defeats & many fruitless victories'. Galadriel speaks of 'fighting the Long Defeat'.There seems to be no feeling that the world can ever be made better, & that, on the contrary, it can only get worse, therefore the best one can do is delay the inevitable decline into evil & Darkness.

Estel, on the other hand, is faith in Illuvatar, that, as Illuvatar is 'Good', then he will, in the end, bring 'Good' out of the evil & suffering, but this 'Good' will not come about 'in' the world of time. (Julian of Norwich: 'For Sin is behovely, but Alll shall be Well, & All shall be Well, & All manner of thing shall be Well'). This position does not seem to involve any specific sense or vision of the form this ultimate 'Good' will take. It is just faith that Illuvatar cannot but bring about the victory of 'the Good'.

Elves have Estel, but not Amdir.

Men clearly posess both, generally speaking - though one wonders if Tolkien was capable of Amdir - Men struggle to make the world a better place, against the odds often, while the Elves struggle on without Amdir, in hopes merely of preventing it becoming worse for as long as they can. This is slightly odd, in that the race which leaves the world has more hope for, & faith in, its future, than the race which is bound to it forever.

Which, I suppose, begs the question, is Amdir as important as Estel, & is the Elves lack of a capacity for Amdir the real cause of their tragedy?
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