[HerenIstarion]

edit: I've found myself unable to post the whole of my reply in one go (seemingly, it was too long, and I was getting error message of a kind). Therefore, it will be split into parts.

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It is perfectly allright to call me H-I if you please

Now to more important matters: (and I believe we may be reaching some kind of consensus one of these days )

What do we define as change, after all?

Main Entry: 2change
Function: noun
1 : the act, process, or result of changing : as a : ALTERATION <a change in the weather> b : TRANSFORMATION <a time of vast social change> <going through changes>c : SUBSTITUTION <a change of scenery>

Such a thing may be possible only if passage of time is involved. That's why I was pointing at the change as 'in the eye of the beholder'. And that's why I totally agree with you on one point at least:

His omniscience does not negate men's freedom - knowledge is not control or power. Eru may know what will happen, & what men will 'offer' him, but he's not making those things happen, merely observing that they happen

Exactly. Total agreement here. That what I've been trying to bring across with all them ropes, ants and lumps of sugar back on preceeding pages of the thread.

but:

& then making a decision on whether to accept them or not

I can not accept, as then in a sentence given indicates passage of Time for Eru too, makes Him subject to change in a same sense as Children are.

What I've tried to indicate, is that change as percieved by elves or men is only a change in their point of view, as they are inside time, and passage of time in itself meaning change, but for Eru, it is what was meant to be, so to say, part of the original plan.

I wouldn't call them [elves and men] 'changes in the Music' as at the point they appeared the Music was still coming into being

Well, I would. Two points here:

1. I see the "was still coming into being", as implying passage of time for Halls of Eru. Eru, as it is, and his Halls, are outside time. For all we know, Music may be there still (and 'still' here does not reflect actual passage of time, but is used for the lack of better word). The history of the world and completetion of the Music, though, of course, the latter being the cause for the first, are not linked in a temporal way. So to say, I do not hold that first was Music, than it was over, and World began. It may be so, of course, but for all we know, it may be not, and those Ainur who were left behind and did not become Valar may be still singing it. Again, "still" used for the lack of better word.

2. Again, change is in the eye of the beholder. The Children were change of Music as seen by Ainur who were singing. Ainur ahve been given theme to sing, and than Eru introduced new theme, which looked as the change of actual score for everybody besides Eru, for whom it was part of original plan (that's omniscience for you)

Further on:

These distinctions would not have to be 'conscious' in any way, we would be talking about something along the lines of Jung's archetypes - pre-existing patterns of thought & behaviour, which would push the beings one way or the other in an attempt to bring into manifestation the themes of the Music. They would all, Valar, Maiar & Elves have a degree of freedom of thought & action in trying to manifest those unconscious themes. But they are not attempting to manifest any new themes, merely to actualise the ones already sung in eternity.
...
Of course, but they [Men] are not bound by the Themes already sung, so there is a degree of freedom of action for them which the other races do not posess

Well, well, Jung was a man of choice for Tolkien at his time among Jung's peers. I can well agree with the first part of it, but where we seem to be at variance (me at one side and you and Mr. Flieger on another), is the second part (concerning mortals)

I hold it as anything really new, original, can be brought by Eru, and Eru only. When I say by Eru, I do not necessarily mean by Him in person (so noneed for the spade), but through agents (elves and men and valar, and natural processes, such as tides). So, men are subject to same conditions whilst actually living their lives on earth, as elves are. After all, the Fate of the Noldor is mainly determined by the bloodshed they caused and by Curse of Mandos. Both elves and men are Children of Eru, so the kind of freedom they have is the same - to accept or disobey Eru. The main difference comes with the Death - Men are free to leave the world, while elves are bound to return to it even when their bodies are destroyed.

So the actual ground for [alleged] envy on behalf of elves and valar is the certainty that Men are not bound by the history of the world, whilst what fate awaits Eldar when the world comes to an end, is unknown. (About elven hope of it see quote (form AFAA) provided by me on the page 1 of the current thread)

The "shape their fate beyond" quotation, for me means that shaping takes place after actual death. So, they [mortals], though having 'a degree of freedom of action for them which the other races do not posess' also are not bringing new things of themselves, but actualising what was sung in the Music. Or, rather, what was brought into the Music directly by Eru, and not meditated by the Valar.

So, as a conclusion,I hold that the true freedom for all of them (maiar, elves, men) is the freedom of choice, not the freedom to give being to something new and than for that new to be accepted by Eru. After all, "freedom to leave" for men is to the big extent "freedom as compared to what happens to elves". No man was ever able to postpone his own death, so their true death is the same destiny for them as [temporal, while the world lasts] immortality is for the elves. So, though the statement does not eliminate freedom at all, Men are nevertheless destined too:

From Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth

This much only can I say: that among
us some hold that our [mortals - H-I] errand here was to heal the Marring of Arda, and by making the hroa partake in the life of the fea to put it beyond
any marring of Melkor or any other spirit of malice for ever. But
that "Arda Healed" (or Remade) shall not be "Arda Unmarred",
but a third thing and a greater. And that third thing maybe is in the
mind of Eru, and is in his answer. You have spoken to me of the
Music and you have conversed with the Valar who were present at
its making ere the world began. Did they hear the end of the Music?
Or was there not something beyond the final chords of Eru, which
(being overwhelmed thereby) the Valar did not hear? Or again
maybe, since Eru is for ever free, He made no music and showed no
Vision beyond a certain point. Beyond that point (which neither
Valar nor Eldar...) we cannot see or know, until, each by our own
roads, we come there.'

emphasis mine. Well, 'errand' and 'own roads' seem as good definition of destiny as any to me.

Davem
No, its clearly stated that Men have the freedom to act outside the Music, 'which is as fate to all things else' as well as the gift of Death

That being the point at which we seem to vary. I hold it that 'as well as' there reflects the truth better if substituted with 'by'

So, both Eru & Men are free agents.

Eru certainly is. Men are up to a point

Atrhabeth finrod ah Andreth, notes

The Eldar held that Eru was and is free at all stages. This
freedom was shown in the Music by His introduction, after the
arising of the discords of Melkor, of the two new themes,
representing the coming of Elves and Men, which were not in
His first communication. He may therefore introduce things directly, which were not in the Music and so are not achieved through the Valar. It remains, nonetheless, true in general to regard Ea as achieved through their mediation.
The additions of Eru, however, will not be 'alien'; they will be
accommodated to the nature and character of Ea and of those
that dwell in it; they may enhance the past and enrich its
purpose and significance, but they will contain it and not
destroy it.
Thus the 'newness' of the themes of the Children of Eru, Elves
and Men, consisted in the association of fear with, or 'housing'
them in, hroar belonging to Ea, in such a way that either were
incomplete without the others. But the fear were not spirits of a
wholly different kind to the Ainur; whereas the bodies were of
a kind closely akin to the bodies of living things already in the
primary design (even if adapted to their new function, or
modified by the indwelling fear)

And with this quote we gently move on to magic:

davem

I wouldn't agree - their hroa may be marred, but their fea is not, as it is not of the matter of Arda, but proceeds from Eru

Yes. But hroa and fea are integrated and affect each other. So, tainted hroa has its effects on fea, and vice versa - wicked fea has effects on the hroa it indwells. hence ugly Morgoth and Sauron, and change of Frodo's looks etc