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Nar · 09-11-2002, 04:49 PM

Excellent question, ST, and excellent responses, Bombur, NN10, Lila and Eol (on Tolkien-- I say it's a good thing!)

The ethics of fantasy are deeply committed to freedom and fulfillment of duties to onesself and others -- that's why it's always a dictatorial tyrant being battled-- Sauron or Morgoth or their ilk-- this makes the 'one true king' theme seem VERY strange if you think about it too long. The irony is, we'd probably all hate a real monarchy-- no one in real life is all wise and good-- or if they are they probably have huge personal failings like umpteen illicit lovers or something.

I think it's the idea of rules and codes of order and bureaucracy (polling stations manned by volunteer little old ladies) --all that modern debris seems inimical to fantasy. Too detailed, too annoying, no 'sense of wonder' as LMP might say (or quote-- where does that phrase come from?)

Then, there's something archetypal about a one-leader structure of government, whether it's a king or chieftan-- one leader matches the feeling of your conscious soul ruling over unconcious impulses and appetites. In the middle ages, the people and country were explicitly equated with the the body and the king with the soul or mind.

I like all these historical forms you're proposing, Bombur, Eol and NN10. It would be good to see more expansion of fantasy themes away from this 'one true king' thing. I'd like to see someone find a way to see the values of liberty, equality, fraternity rigorously worked in a fantasy with a true sense of wonder. Any good examples that you know of?

The Shire is the best I can think of: noone makes trouble, no need for much of a government, but it all depends on borders secured by others and a society monolithically hobbitlike. And it's not a theme in the story until it's taken away; we don't really see the story of the restoration of the sherrifs to their proper position except in summary. What about an epic fantasy where the plot turns on a quest to overthrow the evil inspectors-general who forced all the brewers to pasturize their ale? The Quest of the Well-Malted Mug!

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]

09-11-2002, 04:49 PM	#700
Nar Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 228	Excellent question, ST, and excellent responses, Bombur, NN10, Lila and Eol (on Tolkien-- I say it's a good thing!) The ethics of fantasy are deeply committed to freedom and fulfillment of duties to onesself and others -- that's why it's always a dictatorial tyrant being battled-- Sauron or Morgoth or their ilk-- this makes the 'one true king' theme seem VERY strange if you think about it too long. The irony is, we'd probably all hate a real monarchy-- no one in real life is all wise and good-- or if they are they probably have huge personal failings like umpteen illicit lovers or something. I think it's the idea of rules and codes of order and bureaucracy (polling stations manned by volunteer little old ladies) --all that modern debris seems inimical to fantasy. Too detailed, too annoying, no 'sense of wonder' as LMP might say (or quote-- where does that phrase come from?) Then, there's something archetypal about a one-leader structure of government, whether it's a king or chieftan-- one leader matches the feeling of your conscious soul ruling over unconcious impulses and appetites. In the middle ages, the people and country were explicitly equated with the the body and the king with the soul or mind. I like all these historical forms you're proposing, Bombur, Eol and NN10. It would be good to see more expansion of fantasy themes away from this 'one true king' thing. I'd like to see someone find a way to see the values of liberty, equality, fraternity rigorously worked in a fantasy with a true sense of wonder. Any good examples that you know of? The Shire is the best I can think of: noone makes trouble, no need for much of a government, but it all depends on borders secured by others and a society monolithically hobbitlike. And it's not a theme in the story until it's taken away; we don't really see the story of the restoration of the sherrifs to their proper position except in summary. What about an epic fantasy where the plot turns on a quest to overthrow the evil inspectors-general who forced all the brewers to pasturize their ale? The Quest of the Well-Malted Mug! [ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]