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doug*platypus · 04-11-2004, 09:08 PM

I think that having been part of and witness to the Ainulindalë, all the Valar and Maiar would have foresight to some degree. They certainly don't act like it most of the time, however! Aulë had no idea that his Dwarves would at first be lifeless automatons and Manwë wasn't wise to the fact that Melkor had not changed his tune after his first imprisonment. Mandos and Ulmo seem to have had the best foresight. It was basically Mandos' job to know what was going to happen; also the Ainulindalë was said to live still in the music of the oceans, so we see the foresight of Ulmo which eventually led to the voyage of Eärendil.

I believe that when the Istari took on the forms of old wizards (became incarnate), they would have lost most of their Maiaric abilities. Presumably that would include foresight. Gandalf at least seems less than certain about pretty much everything. I think that the Istari had foresight in only as much measure as the Eldar. Interesting quote from Galadriel about how "all foretelling is now vain." Círdan was right on the money when he foresaw the need of Gandalf to have the Ring of Fire, but then he was the oldest of the Eldar in Middle-Earth, and "mighty among the wise." Probably in tune with Ulmo and Ossë as well, in a Farmer Maggot-Tom Bombadil kind of way. By which I mean they probably came over for a cup of tea and a chat fairly often.

The question must be asked, did Sauron and Morgoth (and the Balrogs??) have foresight equal to the Valar who were faithful to Manwë? Morgoth spent a lot of his time in Angband looking out at what was happening in Beleriand; I'm not certain whether that involved looking into the future as well. While still in Valinor he foresaw that his doom would come from Turgon. I can't recall a lot of other foresight shown by the baddies. Sauron at the end of the Third Age was too busy playing with his armies to foresee Gandalf smacking him upside the eyeball with the aid of Frodo.

But perhaps it was impossible for Sauron to foresee the importance that halflings would play. Making it the most brilliant scheme that could be concocted by Ilúvatar for the downfall of the Dark Lord. Maybe Sauron and Morgoth didn't pay enough attention to halflings in the Third Theme of Ilúvatar.

04-11-2004, 09:08 PM	#9
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	I think that having been part of and witness to the Ainulindalë, all the Valar and Maiar would have foresight to some degree. They certainly don't act like it most of the time, however! Aulë had no idea that his Dwarves would at first be lifeless automatons and Manwë wasn't wise to the fact that Melkor had not changed his tune after his first imprisonment. Mandos and Ulmo seem to have had the best foresight. It was basically Mandos' job to know what was going to happen; also the Ainulindalë was said to live still in the music of the oceans, so we see the foresight of Ulmo which eventually led to the voyage of Eärendil. I believe that when the Istari took on the forms of old wizards (became incarnate), they would have lost most of their Maiaric abilities. Presumably that would include foresight. Gandalf at least seems less than certain about pretty much everything. I think that the Istari had foresight in only as much measure as the Eldar. Interesting quote from Galadriel about how "all foretelling is now vain." Círdan was right on the money when he foresaw the need of Gandalf to have the Ring of Fire, but then he was the oldest of the Eldar in Middle-Earth, and "mighty among the wise." Probably in tune with Ulmo and Ossë as well, in a Farmer Maggot-Tom Bombadil kind of way. By which I mean they probably came over for a cup of tea and a chat fairly often. The question must be asked, did Sauron and Morgoth (and the Balrogs??) have foresight equal to the Valar who were faithful to Manwë? Morgoth spent a lot of his time in Angband looking out at what was happening in Beleriand; I'm not certain whether that involved looking into the future as well. While still in Valinor he foresaw that his doom would come from Turgon. I can't recall a lot of other foresight shown by the baddies. Sauron at the end of the Third Age was too busy playing with his armies to foresee Gandalf smacking him upside the eyeball with the aid of Frodo. But perhaps it was impossible for Sauron to foresee the importance that halflings would play. Making it the most brilliant scheme that could be concocted by Ilúvatar for the downfall of the Dark Lord. Maybe Sauron and Morgoth didn't pay enough attention to halflings in the Third Theme of Ilúvatar.