[Knight of Gondor]

Once again, I saved this site offline and completed a response to several posts, and then found new ones when I signed on. Check back tomorrow.

While what you say is a little too long to quote, Child of the 7th Age , your basic point is that Tolkien’s works can be approached from various different views, and to ambush the cast and crew with questions regarding those themes isn’t something you respect. And I must reiterate, neither I nor, I believe, Ms. Basham is expecting evangelical responses. Shoot, although it would be somewhat comical, even an “there’s Christian themes in Lord of the Rings?” would have been acceptable! No one expects these actors to be keenly aware of those underlying concepts. (For that matter, the OVERlying concepts) However, to deny that they exist (in the actors’ cases) or to shun the mere idea of fleshing out any of those concepts (as in Jackson’s case) or even to deny one of the very fundamental concepts, both of life and in LotR (Walsh/Boyens’ claims of no such thing as good and evil), this is where the problem lies.

My guess is that the movie folk would fall flat on their faces in answering such questions, just as they fell flat when trying to articulate the "spiritual" themes in the movie, since this was not their special area of knowledge or interest. And I would also think that Basham would likewise have serious problems with probing questions outside her own special area of interest if they were ever posed to her. The basic point is this: Tolkien can be approached from many, many different angles.

Quite true. But one must admit first of all that it needn’t be a highly refined point of interest for cast/crew (or at least crew, the people who adapted the works) for them to understand that, hey, you know what? There’s Christian themes in this book. Tolkien’s works can indeed be approached by many different angles. But I think one would have to admit that philosophical and religious angles are certainly one of the largest “magnifying glasses” to look at Lord of the Rings through. Tolkien was a man of faith, and a scholar to boot. He didn’t write his books so people can gasp about what hotties the elves are. (That was just a side benefit)

The idea is that we're here to learn from each other, and not simply to insist that everyone else see things from the particular viewpoint that we personally endorse. So that is my quarrel with Basham -- she has the perfect right to wish that the Lord of the Rings movie had been more "spiritual" in its approach, but not to disparage the filmakers in that they don't share her particular personal view.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that Ms. Basham does not have the right to disparage the film makers? If she does not, then neither do the dozens of people who are critical of each and every book-to-movie detail, such as have been set forth in the “My List of Everything Wrong with the movies (not EE)” thread.

Knight of Gondor -- Believe me, at heart I am very sympathetic to the view that the movie could have done a better job with certain themes. I agree that PJ did a better job depicting evil than he did depicting goodness

Once again, the worst problem (that some of us have) is not that PJ didn’t develop certain underlying Judeo-Christian themes, but that he personally expressed no interest in fleshing them out.

This is one of the most engrossing threads I have ever participated in

Why thank you, Saraphim! I’m happy we’re able to keep this thread civil, because a couple of comparable threads that discuss Christianity in Lord of the Rings have been closed down.

My biggest complaint is with the authoress. As I mentioned before, she uses limited quotes to her advantage, which gives her the angle of haveing to deal with heathenous, bumbling nincompoops, which I also mentioned before.

I have access to her business e-mail address, if you wish to request copies of the quotes in their entirety. But I’m still confused as to what context can change the meanings of those quotes? “No interest whatsoever” in fleshing out Christian themes” “Ban[ning] all religions”?

It is not the job of the cast and crew to know the answers to these things. When asked by a reporter about such things, they rely on what they know, and what they know is obviously not what pleases Ms. Bashem.

It is not the job of the actors to be aware of the philosophical themes of the book they’re playing out on screen. It IS the job of those who adapted the book, and who disregarded hundreds and thousands who know and appreciate Christian themes. It’s not what they “know”, it’s what they don’t know, and in their ignorance, deny the presence of.

Just as Ms Basham's reaction to the quotes from the cast and crew is influenced by her personal standpoint. The difference is that I am not criticising her for not sharing my views.

Very good of you, Sir Saucepan. I’ve noticed there are a few here who are ... and contradicting themselves by doing so! They are criticizing her for criticizing someone, and saying she really shouldn’t let her own personal emotions allow her to disparage the cast and crew because she disagrees with them. But they’re allowing their own personal emotions to affect their opinion, and they disparage her because they disagree with her.

I respect her right to her beliefs. Rather, I am criticising her for not according the same respect to the cast and crew and for presuming that they should share her outlook on life.

Was there some measure of disrespect that I missed? I’m sure she respects them. She herself admits that she was slightly awed by the whole deal. She merely writes about it from her own perspective.

There is no doubt that things like good and evil are portrayed in the movie. There even are some Christian themes, if one bothers to look at it that way! Perhaps not detailed doctrinal issues, but basic themes. It is merely disappointing to find that those themes made their way into the movie by accident, as the people who adapted the books to the movies do not believe in those concepts at all!

I don't know about that, Saraphim. Is it not the very essence of journalism to use what others say to further one's own personal (or corporate) agenda?

For the most part, I agree. But I don’t see an agenda imbedded in the article. I see commentary, I see observances put forth by Ms. Basham as a result of being lucky enough to attend a press junket.