[Bêthberry]

Like Squatter, I too wouldl like to see more people post in the discussion. I was pleased, however, to see such people as Orofaniel, Durelin, Firefoot, Saraphim, Arry, Fingolfin II, Kransha, and tar-ancalime post.

Yet, also like Squatter, I don't have the answer to Fingolfin II's statement.

I think posts should be more open and accessible to everyone in the Barrow-Downs, not just a few more 'learned' people.

Fingolfin II, could you explain what you mean by 'more open and accessible'?

Do you mean we limit the discussion solely to LOTR and not bring in any other of Tolkien's writings or his Letters, since many might not have read the Letters or The Silm? (When I first arrived on the Downs, I had read some of Tolkien's essays and minor works, TH and LOTR, but not The Silm and was daunted by how others would off-handedly refer to passages and elements from the Legendarium.)

Or would you prefer not to see outside critics and scholars quoted with their ideas about Tolkien? (I am thinking here of such things as davem's quote from the Proceedings of the Tolkien Society.) Perhaps we need to be more rigorous in focussing the discussion solely on the chapter in question?

Are there differences of style, as Squatter and Alatariel Telemnar have suggested, which you think would make the discussion more inviting? Perhaps when posters such as Fordim Hedgethistle (or myself on the Canonicity thread) use words such as readerly, we need to provide an explanation of the word or idea? Maybe we are using concepts about books which are unfamiliar and some posters would like us to explain them better?

Or is there something about this Chapter by Chapter forum which is different from other Books threads? Or is this rather the kind of difference which exists between Books and, say, Novices and Newcomers?

I don't think anyone who posted wanted to deter others from posting--certainly there is nothing here like the curt, short, sharp style the guys used when I came to BD. Others besides myself addressed posts to people who, for instance, did not post on the Canonicity thread, such as Orofaniel and Durelin (I hope I'm right about this--relying on my faulty memory!). I enjoyed Arry's post about old typewriters and ten-fingured so much that it inspired me to think about Tolkien's self-deprecatory wit. I was very pleased when tar-ancalime took a point about my post and expanded it to a defense of the work of art as art to speak for itself without outside explication.--something I had in fact been planning to do myself in a subsequent post! I still owe replies to Oro and Durelin (RL is placing a heavy limit on my time here these days) but in my delay I find that Son of Númenor has, quite better than I think I could have, provided an explanation of how real life events could be seen to have had a hand in the writing of LOTR without necessarily providing a one-to-one literal correspondence. In short, I think there has been a fair bit of cooperative discussion on the Foreword thread so far.

Fingolfin, I don't want to cut you off from answering, but these ideas have been running in head for some time. Please bear with me while I ponder some other ideas about internet communities.

What possibly is happening is, of course, common to all internet communities which grow and develop with 'new blood'. Some of us have been here for four years, some two years, others a little over or under a year. That creates some difficulties, for the "old timers" have memories of discussions which inform their ideas, memories which the 'newly arrived' don't share. One other unique aspect of the Downs is the age range of people here. We have teenagers to, well, not quite senior citizens, but people in their forties and even *gasp* fifties. This is I think an admirable effect of Tolkien's writing, that he can appeal to such an age range. But it can provide some difficulties when we 'speak' to each other.

Another aspect of internet communities is the sometimes rapid turnover of people. Some stay; others go, for a variety of reasons. I know that some of us, Child and myself particularly and I think Estelyn also and I am sure others, go to great effort to welcome 'newbies' and to encourage them to post. I have spent much delightful time corresponding via PM with posters. And many of them are now gone, at least from the site and some even from all email access. It is hard to be constantly making new acqaintances and then losing them. This is not the 'fault' of anyone, but perhaps it limits the responses of some of the 'old timers' who want to wait to see if the 'newbies' will in fact stay.

And some of us just have our own 'hobby horses' to ride as we challenge each other back and forth about our ideas. (What? Moi ride my own hobby horse?) Isn't this right, Mr. Underhill, Aiwendil, davem, Helen, Heren ? I guess this is part of how we know each other and the interest we take in each and we have to learn to make room for new people to find a place within this ebb and flow of talk.

Posting on discussion boards takes courage, because we see our ideas 'out there' and have little idea initially what might happen to them. Perhaps if we took more courage to contact posters when we didn't understand something, either via PM or even on a post, we might be able to create a 'common ground of understanding' so that, without necessarily demanding that we all think and write alike, we can feel comfortable listening to each other.


Fingolfin II, I guess I got a little carried away here with ideas. Please feel entirely free to tell me I have either answered my own questions or missed your point or the boat .

(Note, I got told I used too many smilies, so I have removed them. Now I rely on words alone to suggest my gentle touch of humour, at myself, I point out.)