[symestreem]

Originally Posted by Cibbwin

I've had quite a few of my more intelligent friends (Yes, teenagers can be intelligent) ask me if I think Tolkien was sexist. And my answer is usually two words: Luthien Tinuviel. She's a woman who saves the DUDE from the dark tower. She's the one who goes into the "underworld" and saves the DUDE again. That's almost unheard of in fairy tales.

I agree, that this empowerment given women nowadays can be sexist. The reason being that the tough chick is always this sex kitten. And the lead dude always bangs her in the end. So the woman is STILL degraded to a sex object. And she STILL gets saved by the dude. I saw Van Helsing hoping that Kate Beckinsale's character would kick butt and hold onto her dignity, but she uses her sabre once, and that is to cut rope.

Of course, the part of Luthien Tinuviel could also be interpreted to mean that the woman is fulfilling her traditional duty of serving the man. She can't live without him, because he is her protector, so she must risk life and limb to get him back.
Not that I agree with that.

There are so few women in Tolkien's books that it is hard to judge, so as a baseline I'm going back to my handy dictionary.

sex ism 1 : prejudice or discrimination based on sex; esp : discrimination against women 2 : behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex

Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Edition


Well, there is certainly sexism of the first definition in Tolkien's work- there are many, many fewer women characters of all races. True, some of them play prominent roles, but there are many more prominent male characters.

The second definition is more difficult. Did Tolkien's writings reinforce 'stereotypes of social roles based on sex'? In Lord of the Rings, we have eight female characters: Lobelia, Rose, Goldberry, Arwen, Galadriel, Eowyn, Ioreth, and Shelob. There are more mentioned, but only names. So of the eight, one is a shrew, one is a hobbit-lass, and later wife and mother, one is an unknown force of nature, one is an Elf-queen, one is a warrior-princess, one is a healer, and one is a big spider and force of evil. These are their primary roles; however, we know for sure that all but one was either a wife or mother, and usually both. (Goldberry is a wife of sorts but not, as far as we know, a mother; Shelob is a mother but not a wife. Ioreth is unknown.) It's a pretty fair bet to say that Tolkien felt that a woman's place was as a wife and mother- not her only place, however, as can be seen by the assortment of 'professions', if you will, above.
I would have to say that the second definition does not apply to Tolkien. Yes, his characters usually fit the social roles for women at the time he was writing his stories, but they also transcended them. Women have been wives and mothers since the beginning of time- it's a physiological necessity. Tolkien was ahead of many of his time by writing that women could be other things, too.

I will leave it up to someone else to argue whether sexism, as expressed in the first definition, is really a bad thing.

Postscript- Cibbwen, I saw Pirates of the Caribbean in the same frame of mind. I was positive that the leading lady would be a helpless, screaming chick. I was pleasantly surprised. There is hope out there!