[davem]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I’m obviously not an Anglo-Saxon in mentality but I would not want such a man commanding me if I were a soldier or responsible for the defense of part of my land if I were a king. Such a man is downright counterproductive.

I suppose this is the issue - lets take some 'Anglo-saxons' - the Rohirrim, Faramir's 'middle men', who love the glory of battle. Would they have had such a 'negative' view of Turin's actions? Their behaviour seems to border on the suicidal sometimes, because for them not feeling ashamed in the Halls of their fathers is the central motivating force. Turin forced things - he was a kind of 'wild card' who made things happen. The conflict with Morgoth was not something which could be avoided. It was simply a case of if it doesn't happen now, it'll happen sooner or later. Morgoth was the bad guy, & he wasn't going to stop. Turin's thought, & Feanor's, & Boromir's, was simply if we're going to go down, at least we will go down fighting. Yes, they go down in a blaze of glory, dragging too many unfortunates with them, but in the end the battle is going to come to them.

Lets take a look at Aragorn's 'ofermod' before the Black Gate, when he has just been given 'evidence' of Frodo's capture, the failure of the Quest. Defeat is inevitable, but he has been offered terms of surrender, & life & safety for his people. Does he take it, & 'live to fight another day'? No, he decides he will make a last stand against an overwhelming force, which, after it has destroyed his & his army, will go on & wipe out or enslave the rest of the West.

Ok, that's not as extreme as Turin's actions, but its bordering on them - a 'glorious' defeat, going down fighting, rather than thinking of 'saving' his people he does what Beortnoth does & decides 'better death than dishonour'. And we know that Sauron wouldn't have simply slaughtered all & sundry, because he wanted slaves, not corpses.

These kind of 'rash' actions run right through the Legendarium. Ofermod is a 'bad' thing in Tolkien's mind, dangerous, callous, & he'd prefer a 'civilised', 'Christian' world of universal love & peace, but, by the gods, ofermod can be glorious, it can also inspire succeding generations - who inspires you most, who did most damage to Morgoth, who 'lives on' - Turin's, Feanor's, or 'that elf guy, the tall one with the blue tunic, in Nargothrond' (can't remember his name, or exactly what he did, etc, etc.)? Turin inspires, so does Feanor. And the reason they inspire is due in large part (& whether Tolkien likes it or not) because of their ofermod.