The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post

Lalwendë · 08-17-2004, 01:18 PM

Tolkien said that Lord of the Rings was "a fundamentally Catholic work". I think that Tolkien didn't intend his writing to reflect the moral strictures/theology of the catholic church, more the spiritual element of his Catholic faith - as seen in the good/evil struggle (yet with shades of grey), or the redemption of characters such as Boromir. And what is interesting is that Catholicism is quite different to many other Christian churches in that it has an elaborate 'mythology' system (saints), and the tenets of Celtic Catholicism were often built upon older non-Christian beliefs.

This opens up another can of worms...but no offence intended!

I myself get the feeling that as Tolkien got older more sadness did creep into his work, and more emphasis on his own beliefs was evident - perhaps this is as a result of him getting older - I do find that as age creeps up on you either grow more reliant upon your faith or you lose it altogether (my own parents are at these two polar ends of the scale). The other day I read, for the first time, Tolkien's draft of a story set in the fourth age (it can be found in Peoples of Middle Earth), and what struck me was how he was struggling with the implications of a world now at peace. It was as though he believed there never could be peace, and I was affected by how he was obviously struggling with this concept, and was unable to produce a story he felt was worthwhile. In the notes it mentions how Tolkien thought that in the fourth age there might be those who would forget the wars their forefathers had fought and would look to stir up conflict for the sake of it. I did get the feeling that this was Tolkien's own regretful view of human existence, as he got older and saw constant conflict around the world, despite the message of the two world wars he had seen.

I hadn't before given thought to how Tolkien might view the Nazi mis-appropriation of Nordic myths, but I do think, from tying what I have read on here with my recent reading of the abandoned 4th age tale, that Tolkien was deeply upset by this misuse of stories he held so dear. There are many areas of culture which the Nazis 'soiled', and which racists still soil to this day. The appropriation of the English flag by jingoists and racists is just one example. So yes, I think it is probable that Tolkien did lose faith in his original intention somewhat.

This is an interesting topic, but it's hard to express yourself when discussing religion and politics via this medium!

08-17-2004, 01:18 PM	#9
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Tolkien said that Lord of the Rings was "a fundamentally Catholic work". I think that Tolkien didn't intend his writing to reflect the moral strictures/theology of the catholic church, more the spiritual element of his Catholic faith - as seen in the good/evil struggle (yet with shades of grey), or the redemption of characters such as Boromir. And what is interesting is that Catholicism is quite different to many other Christian churches in that it has an elaborate 'mythology' system (saints), and the tenets of Celtic Catholicism were often built upon older non-Christian beliefs. This opens up another can of worms...but no offence intended! I myself get the feeling that as Tolkien got older more sadness did creep into his work, and more emphasis on his own beliefs was evident - perhaps this is as a result of him getting older - I do find that as age creeps up on you either grow more reliant upon your faith or you lose it altogether (my own parents are at these two polar ends of the scale). The other day I read, for the first time, Tolkien's draft of a story set in the fourth age (it can be found in Peoples of Middle Earth), and what struck me was how he was struggling with the implications of a world now at peace. It was as though he believed there never could be peace, and I was affected by how he was obviously struggling with this concept, and was unable to produce a story he felt was worthwhile. In the notes it mentions how Tolkien thought that in the fourth age there might be those who would forget the wars their forefathers had fought and would look to stir up conflict for the sake of it. I did get the feeling that this was Tolkien's own regretful view of human existence, as he got older and saw constant conflict around the world, despite the message of the two world wars he had seen. I hadn't before given thought to how Tolkien might view the Nazi mis-appropriation of Nordic myths, but I do think, from tying what I have read on here with my recent reading of the abandoned 4th age tale, that Tolkien was deeply upset by this misuse of stories he held so dear. There are many areas of culture which the Nazis 'soiled', and which racists still soil to this day. The appropriation of the English flag by jingoists and racists is just one example. So yes, I think it is probable that Tolkien did lose faith in his original intention somewhat. This is an interesting topic, but it's hard to express yourself when discussing religion and politics via this medium!