The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post

Nar · 09-08-2002, 08:46 AM

Greetings, Edhel-Dur! Welcome to the Downs, enjoy being dead!

I'm afraid I don't exactly know any of these terms, I have read the Silmarillion, and the first half of History of Middle Earth (and LotR, of course), but I don't recall those words-- you know more than I do there! Where are they from?

However, I'll take a crack at your question anyway. By Eruhini you mean those spirits that were with Eru at the beginning, some greater and some lesser? They're called Ainur in the Valaquenta, the term Eruhini seems similar-- something like 'of Eru'? I'd like to know where the term came from, it's interesting.

I'm not really an expert, but I'll review my general knowledge and hope you can figure out if it applies to your question.

The Ainur include spirits that remained outside Arda, both greater and lesser and spirits that entered in, and often or usually took physical form. (in which some were bound to remain) The greater were called the Valar and the lesser called the Maiar, which include Gandalf, the other Wizards, Sauron and the Balrogs.

The Ents and Eagles appear to be Maia spirits who took physical form in response to a call from Yavenna and Manwe (and by the intent of Eru)-- they are bound to their bodies, but the spirits were Ainur who came to inhabit them, and thus they serve special functions as agents or emissaries of these Valar. I'm basing that on the chapter 'Of Aule and Yavenna' in The Silmarillion: Yavenna's pleas for the safety of plants and trees who can't run away and Manwe's vision about the forming/coming of the Ents and Eagles, to be inhabited by Ainur, or more specificaly Maiar ('lesser' Ainur who entered Arda and took physical form).

I'm guessing that by Mirroanwi you mean Maiar. You can tell me if I'm correct. If so, then you are working from material I haven't seen, so the term is different. In that case, yes, Eagles and Ents are Mirroanwi. If I'm wrong about your term, sorry, I had to try! If you would consider Gandalf or Saruman to be Mirroanwi, then the Eagles and Ents are also Mirroanwi. I would say they have Hroar and Fear, and I would say that their Fear are considered Ainur or, if I'm correct about your term, Eruhini. I'm not absolutely sure about applying the terms Hroar and Fear to incarnate Maiar, that's a guess on my part. Seems reasonable.

[ September 08, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]

[ September 08, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]

09-08-2002, 08:46 AM	#2
Nar Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 228	Greetings, Edhel-Dur! Welcome to the Downs, enjoy being dead! I'm afraid I don't exactly know any of these terms, I have read the Silmarillion, and the first half of History of Middle Earth (and LotR, of course), but I don't recall those words-- you know more than I do there! Where are they from? However, I'll take a crack at your question anyway. By Eruhini you mean those spirits that were with Eru at the beginning, some greater and some lesser? They're called Ainur in the Valaquenta, the term Eruhini seems similar-- something like 'of Eru'? I'd like to know where the term came from, it's interesting. I'm not really an expert, but I'll review my general knowledge and hope you can figure out if it applies to your question. The Ainur include spirits that remained outside Arda, both greater and lesser and spirits that entered in, and often or usually took physical form. (in which some were bound to remain) The greater were called the Valar and the lesser called the Maiar, which include Gandalf, the other Wizards, Sauron and the Balrogs. The Ents and Eagles appear to be Maia spirits who took physical form in response to a call from Yavenna and Manwe (and by the intent of Eru)-- they are bound to their bodies, but the spirits were Ainur who came to inhabit them, and thus they serve special functions as agents or emissaries of these Valar. I'm basing that on the chapter 'Of Aule and Yavenna' in The Silmarillion: Yavenna's pleas for the safety of plants and trees who can't run away and Manwe's vision about the forming/coming of the Ents and Eagles, to be inhabited by Ainur, or more specificaly Maiar ('lesser' Ainur who entered Arda and took physical form). I'm guessing that by Mirroanwi you mean Maiar. You can tell me if I'm correct. If so, then you are working from material I haven't seen, so the term is different. In that case, yes, Eagles and Ents are Mirroanwi. If I'm wrong about your term, sorry, I had to try! If you would consider Gandalf or Saruman to be Mirroanwi, then the Eagles and Ents are also Mirroanwi. I would say they have Hroar and Fear, and I would say that their Fear are considered Ainur or, if I'm correct about your term, Eruhini. I'm not absolutely sure about applying the terms Hroar and Fear to incarnate Maiar, that's a guess on my part. Seems reasonable. [ September 08, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ] [ September 08, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]