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**lindil** · 09-12-2002, 03:30 PM

I must say Marileangorifurnimaluim,
I respectfully disagree w/ several points in your first reply here.

The elves imo weremagicalby nature.

an example of this that comes to mind is Finrod's battle w/ Sauron in Minas Tirith, Finrod had no magical weapons at all, only himself, and 'spells' which werer probably common to the Noldor [ at least high level one's].

Abilities such as osanwe [ most folks would consider 'psychic powers' akin if not identical to magic]
Also I recal along debate from the past regarding the ford of Bruinen being under Elrond's command. I had supposed this was due to the ring but althoughi cannot recall the arguments, several loremasters here convinced me otherwise.

And how could Elves impart magical abilities to theior say , weapons unless it was aprAt of their nature?

The dunedain likewise have been given [ by the valar/Eru and also thru elvish blood] a varying percentage of 'Elven' abilities; ability to make 'magical swords' 'unbreakable towers'[orthanc] are the first that come to mind.

Anyway as regards the palantir, I think it was essentially the same magical 'technology ' if you will as the palantir but created w/ a [hallowed/magically prepared] basin of Water. As for wether it would work w/ out her, probably not, but we really do not know to the degree she 'charged'the object and to what degree, she 'operated' it.

She had as was mentioned thousands of years to practice and develop such things and she was [ as is said of no one else but Luthien] close in counsel w/ Melian, [ both have girles around their land for inastance, though of a different nature and power].

The only difference between the Palntir and the Mirror in my opinion were the materials it was made of and it's lack of partners. The question as to who could operate it is to me an open one, we simply are given no additional information to be able to accurately infer on this. I do doubt that anyone could pop in to her private garden and check on their long lost relatives in Thranduil's realm, but can we say that Celeborn or a visiting Elrond or Arwen needed help/permission?

09-12-2002, 03:30 PM	#15
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	I must say Marileangorifurnimaluim, I respectfully disagree w/ several points in your first reply here. The elves imo weremagicalby nature. an example of this that comes to mind is Finrod's battle w/ Sauron in Minas Tirith, Finrod had no magical weapons at all, only himself, and 'spells' which werer probably common to the Noldor [ at least high level one's]. Abilities such as osanwe [ most folks would consider 'psychic powers' akin if not identical to magic] Also I recal along debate from the past regarding the ford of Bruinen being under Elrond's command. I had supposed this was due to the ring but althoughi cannot recall the arguments, several loremasters here convinced me otherwise. And how could Elves impart magical abilities to theior say , weapons unless it was aprAt of their nature? The dunedain likewise have been given [ by the valar/Eru and also thru elvish blood] a varying percentage of 'Elven' abilities; ability to make 'magical swords' 'unbreakable towers'[orthanc] are the first that come to mind. Anyway as regards the palantir, I think it was essentially the same magical 'technology ' if you will as the palantir but created w/ a [hallowed/magically prepared] basin of Water. As for wether it would work w/ out her, probably not, but we really do not know to the degree she 'charged'the object and to what degree, she 'operated' it. She had as was mentioned thousands of years to practice and develop such things and she was [ as is said of no one else but Luthien] close in counsel w/ Melian, [ both have girles around their land for inastance, though of a different nature and power]. The only difference between the Palntir and the Mirror in my opinion were the materials it was made of and it's lack of partners. The question as to who could operate it is to me an open one, we simply are given no additional information to be able to accurately infer on this. I do doubt that anyone could pop in to her private garden and check on their long lost relatives in Thranduil's realm, but can we say that Celeborn or a visiting Elrond or Arwen needed help/permission? __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.