The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post

bombur · 09-19-2002, 08:47 PM

An old joke....

How many members of internet discussiongroup/mailinglist members does it take to change a lightbulb? 1841

1 does it and tells of it. 14 shares personal experiences. 10 expresses doubts of the competency of the bulb changer. 27 Complains of too academic terminology used. 53 flames the complainers. 12 sends a message with header ”test”. 156 COMPLAINS TO THE PROBLEM THAT BULB CHANGING DOES BELONG ON THE THREAD/LIST. 41 complains of the academic terminology in the flame-mail. 25 announces that they are too busy to participate the discussion. 109 COMPLAINS THAT THE THREAD/LIST IS NOT FOR DISCUSSION OF BULB CHANGING AND SUGGEST BULBCHANGE.COM DISCUSSIONSITE. 203 demands that the messages of bulb changing cease to be forwarded to the threads/lists of homemakers & comicfans. 111 defends forwarding by fact that electric light is required for both reading and homemaking.. 306 genuinely discusses of lightbulbs. 27 mails webadresses for lightbulb pages. 4 wants to know where to find best porn in the internet. 14 informs that the webadresses for lightbulb pages are faulted and sends corrections. 172 complain that one cannot find porn even with the corrected webadresses. 33 paste all the previous mails together and send them with the note ”I agree”. 12 ask for advise on how to unregister/discontinue the order for the list because they are tired of lightbulbs. 19 Adds ”so do I” to the ”I agree” mails and send them. 4 SUGGEST THAT THE DEBATORS GET A NEW LIST / OPEN A NEW THREAD FOR BULB CHANGING DISCUSSION. 56 Sends information on where to find pictures of Michael Jackson. 1 Wants to form a new bulbchanging discussion forum. 47 INFORMS THAT FOR THIS PURPOSE THERE ALREADY IS A HOME-ELECTRICIAN THREAD/LIST. 243 complains that there was no porn in the home.electrician either. 141 VOTE FOR OPENING A BULBCHANGE LIST/THREAD

[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Fact is that when people think of things and discuss them subject drifts arise and enrich the diuscussion. Thinking how Galadriel did her tricks might lead to some kind of passing viewing of magic in the middle earth. Please do not police the subject drifts. I prefer not to discuss the issue in the magic thread, because my concept of the thing is totally different from the basic consept of that discussion and I’m not in the mood for a hot debate. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

It would seem to me that there is no magic as a modern person understands it in middle earth. There are basically two things alike to it, sources of power one might say. There is art-inclination, ones skill and sense of beauty or purpose, and then there is ones personal innate might. Theese are used to become inspired so to say. Typical achievement would be to make items that have a degree of purpose and might. Towers that endure or doors that open at a word. They can be used to learn (not to do... to learn) tricks so to say. Like lighting fire from nothing or walking over dry leaves without cracking them. Basically it is not a feature of the man/elf/dwarf/ainur, but that of the world. To proper harnessing of ones chi ( [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ) world will comply. A smith feanor will be able to able to learn making of things that shine their own light because he has passion, power, art, talent and knowledge. The line between natural and magic is farther in the middle earth then in ours. A smith can learn to forge jewels.

So Galadriel is not a visionary because of the ring. She was given the ring of air because she is visionary. Gandalf is not popular fireworks maker because he knows how to manipulate fire. He knows how to manipulate fire because he likes to play with it. Finrod and Sauron are not singing spells. They are testing their relative mights, Gandalf and Saruman are not debating in Orthanc, they are doing the same... upon reaching a clear result, world will compy to the stronger and he can impose enchantment over the weaker. It is not magic, it is merely local law of nature. There are passes of the exact same nature in Kalevala. In Irish myth as well, as one acchieves superiority in song of beauty or debate of wisdom one can impose a geas on the loser... not because one were ”magic” but because that is how the world works.

This leads to few interresting implications....

Only such who creates ”to create” CAN acchieve the kind of ability Feanor did. But Feanor said of silmarills something to the effect that there are SOME works that are so great that the maker can never do them again... he is speaking of the silmarils as his greatest work. Silmarils were created by his purest inspiration and ONLY to be beautiful works of art. This same restriction does not apply to the more practical and conventional works of his. He forged many ”terrible” swords and weapons to his sons and himself. Now to which category do the palantir fall?

Galadriel is not divining. What she is doing is that she is looking through the water to distant place as she has long time ago learned how to do it. Only one who seeks wisdom and knowledge as an end and purpose in itself can learn to do this. Perhaps she learned to do this by using palantir at times gone by though she does not need one anymore. Or perhaps while Feanor was learning from Aule she learned from Varda. Or perhaps she merely has been learning inch by inch to see farther as this has been her inclination.

Perhaps even Feanor made the palantir together with Galadriel. After all, the Palantir bother me. Where did this power come from. It would be the only instance in the history of middle earth of someone making an item having some kind of basic capability that the maker does not have. The items seem to empower and add to qualities already there. Feanor loved light and his heart was full of fire and the light of the trees surrounded him, so he was able to make the silmarils. But his making the Palantirs is like a blind man inventing TV-camera. One can hardly categorise him as farsighted person. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Now Galadriel was the seer, Feanor the maker, Galadriel was in good terms with this side of the family.

What I mean is that Galadriel has had plenty of chance to get a palantir. But I think she is well beyond what palantir are. Only those who cannot walk need a wheelchair. The palantir have a natural function that imitate her natural skill, hardly vise versa.

Janne Harju

09-19-2002, 08:47 PM	#26
bombur Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: finland Posts: 126	An old joke.... How many members of internet discussiongroup/mailinglist members does it take to change a lightbulb? 1841 1 does it and tells of it. 14 shares personal experiences. 10 expresses doubts of the competency of the bulb changer. 27 Complains of too academic terminology used. 53 flames the complainers. 12 sends a message with header ”test”. 156 COMPLAINS TO THE PROBLEM THAT BULB CHANGING DOES BELONG ON THE THREAD/LIST. 41 complains of the academic terminology in the flame-mail. 25 announces that they are too busy to participate the discussion. 109 COMPLAINS THAT THE THREAD/LIST IS NOT FOR DISCUSSION OF BULB CHANGING AND SUGGEST BULBCHANGE.COM DISCUSSIONSITE. 203 demands that the messages of bulb changing cease to be forwarded to the threads/lists of homemakers & comicfans. 111 defends forwarding by fact that electric light is required for both reading and homemaking.. 306 genuinely discusses of lightbulbs. 27 mails webadresses for lightbulb pages. 4 wants to know where to find best porn in the internet. 14 informs that the webadresses for lightbulb pages are faulted and sends corrections. 172 complain that one cannot find porn even with the corrected webadresses. 33 paste all the previous mails together and send them with the note ”I agree”. 12 ask for advise on how to unregister/discontinue the order for the list because they are tired of lightbulbs. 19 Adds ”so do I” to the ”I agree” mails and send them. 4 SUGGEST THAT THE DEBATORS GET A NEW LIST / OPEN A NEW THREAD FOR BULB CHANGING DISCUSSION. 56 Sends information on where to find pictures of Michael Jackson. 1 Wants to form a new bulbchanging discussion forum. 47 INFORMS THAT FOR THIS PURPOSE THERE ALREADY IS A HOME-ELECTRICIAN THREAD/LIST. 243 complains that there was no porn in the home.electrician either. 141 VOTE FOR OPENING A BULBCHANGE LIST/THREAD [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Fact is that when people think of things and discuss them subject drifts arise and enrich the diuscussion. Thinking how Galadriel did her tricks might lead to some kind of passing viewing of magic in the middle earth. Please do not police the subject drifts. I prefer not to discuss the issue in the magic thread, because my concept of the thing is totally different from the basic consept of that discussion and I’m not in the mood for a hot debate. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] It would seem to me that there is no magic as a modern person understands it in middle earth. There are basically two things alike to it, sources of power one might say. There is art-inclination, ones skill and sense of beauty or purpose, and then there is ones personal innate might. Theese are used to become inspired so to say. Typical achievement would be to make items that have a degree of purpose and might. Towers that endure or doors that open at a word. They can be used to learn (not to do... to learn) tricks so to say. Like lighting fire from nothing or walking over dry leaves without cracking them. Basically it is not a feature of the man/elf/dwarf/ainur, but that of the world. To proper harnessing of ones chi ( [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ) world will comply. A smith feanor will be able to able to learn making of things that shine their own light because he has passion, power, art, talent and knowledge. The line between natural and magic is farther in the middle earth then in ours. A smith can learn to forge jewels. So Galadriel is not a visionary because of the ring. She was given the ring of air because she is visionary. Gandalf is not popular fireworks maker because he knows how to manipulate fire. He knows how to manipulate fire because he likes to play with it. Finrod and Sauron are not singing spells. They are testing their relative mights, Gandalf and Saruman are not debating in Orthanc, they are doing the same... upon reaching a clear result, world will compy to the stronger and he can impose enchantment over the weaker. It is not magic, it is merely local law of nature. There are passes of the exact same nature in Kalevala. In Irish myth as well, as one acchieves superiority in song of beauty or debate of wisdom one can impose a geas on the loser... not because one were ”magic” but because that is how the world works. This leads to few interresting implications.... Only such who creates ”to create” CAN acchieve the kind of ability Feanor did. But Feanor said of silmarills something to the effect that there are SOME works that are so great that the maker can never do them again... he is speaking of the silmarils as his greatest work. Silmarils were created by his purest inspiration and ONLY to be beautiful works of art. This same restriction does not apply to the more practical and conventional works of his. He forged many ”terrible” swords and weapons to his sons and himself. Now to which category do the palantir fall? Galadriel is not divining. What she is doing is that she is looking through the water to distant place as she has long time ago learned how to do it. Only one who seeks wisdom and knowledge as an end and purpose in itself can learn to do this. Perhaps she learned to do this by using palantir at times gone by though she does not need one anymore. Or perhaps while Feanor was learning from Aule she learned from Varda. Or perhaps she merely has been learning inch by inch to see farther as this has been her inclination. Perhaps even Feanor made the palantir together with Galadriel. After all, the Palantir bother me. Where did this power come from. It would be the only instance in the history of middle earth of someone making an item having some kind of basic capability that the maker does not have. The items seem to empower and add to qualities already there. Feanor loved light and his heart was full of fire and the light of the trees surrounded him, so he was able to make the silmarils. But his making the Palantirs is like a blind man inventing TV-camera. One can hardly categorise him as farsighted person. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Now Galadriel was the seer, Feanor the maker, Galadriel was in good terms with this side of the family. What I mean is that Galadriel has had plenty of chance to get a palantir. But I think she is well beyond what palantir are. Only those who cannot walk need a wheelchair. The palantir have a natural function that imitate her natural skill, hardly vise versa. Janne Harju