[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

The Saucepan Man:The fact remains that there will be works that some people find aesthetically beautiful and others don't.

Well, of course. Which has as much to do with exposure and education as personal taste. Just as striking as the wide variety of individual points of view on beauty, is the universal agreement among all humans as to what constitutes beauty.

Well, I would say that exposure and education goes towards making up personal taste. Otherwise I would agree with what you say, with the substitution for "significant degree of" for "universal". But the impression as to what is "good" or "beautiful" is still a subjective one, even it is one on which the majority agree. Beauty remains in the eye of the beholder.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Lalwendë:I like a lot of music that really winds other people up, and it's definitely not aesthetically pleasing, but it's me-pleasing, and I would say that this is a non-aesthetic reason by choice. I like to hear cathartic or discordant music as much as I like to hear Vaughan Williams.

Quote:
The Saucepan Man So, although you may not consider it to be aesthetically pleasing, and others may consider it to be "bad", you nevertheless consider it to be "good". That illustrates precisely the point that I am trying to make.

No, I don't think it does, SPM. I think that Lalwendë is saying that to her it's "enjoyable" even if it's not "good". There is a difference. It's the same thing Estelyn pointed out regarding the two Bachs.

Surely if someone finds something "enjoyable", it is "good" in their mind? I define "aesthetic beauty" more narrowly than Aiwendil, but I agree that the physical composition of a work of art is not necessarily the only element which influences the individual's assessment of its quality.

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

The only trouble with "enjoyment" is that it refers specifically to the reaction of the audience, whereas beauty refers to the object itself.

But one could use the word "enjoyable" instead, which would refer to the object. So, a person could say "I found that piece of music enjoyable" just as one could say "I found that piece of music beautiful". They might mean the same thing with both sentences or they might mean something different. Both would indicate to me, however, that they found it to be "good". And, while they are undoubtedly referring to the object (the piece of music), the reaction is a subjective one on their part.