Thread: Forever?
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Old 11-21-2004, 12:44 PM   #70
Boromir88
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1420!

We've been talking a lot about the evil form of manipulation, with the Ring, but what about "good manipulation?" (Gandalf). Gandalf uses his own ways of manipulation and actually prevails.

First instance-Bag End, Bilbo. Bilbo wants to hold onto the Ring, Gandalf is that external power telling Bilbo to let it go, and he convinces Bilbo to let go the "evil."

Second instance-Amon Hen. The Eye (Sauron) and the Voice (Gandalf) battle within Frodo, so this is Frodo's own internal battle, good and evil represents the Voice and The Eye. As Davem points out Frodo see's himself as neither, but as his own person, and with this matter, he sort of is "on the fence," as he decides he's neither, but his own person.

Third instance-Theoden. Theoden's mind is overthrown (or very close to being overthrown) and Gandalf, again the external power, telling Theoden to listen, Theoden does, and he is renewed.

Quote:
Now Theoden son of Thengel, will you hearken to me?" said Gandalf. "Do you ask for help?" He lifted his staff and pointed to a high window. There the darkness seemed to clear, and through the opening could be seen, high and far, a patch of shining sky. "Not all is dark. Take courage, Lord of the Mark; for better help you will not find. No counsel have I to give to those that despair. Yet counsel I could give, and words I could speak to you. Will you hear them? They are not for all ears. I bid you come out before your doors and look abroad. Too long have you sat in shadows and trusted to twisted tales and crooked promptings."
Gandalf uses his own form of manipulation, this external voice, to get across to Theoden. Theoden decides to listen to Gandalf and you know the rest of the story. Where I'm trying to go is "manipulation" seems like it's such a bad term, but could be used for good purposes. When you think about it, what Gandalf does is the same to what the other "manipulators (The Ring and Saruman) do, it's just he manipulates for a good reason. Or maybe, manipulation is too strong a word for what Gandalf does, would persuasive work?
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