[The Saucepan Man]

No, I think that Salocin has a good point. Greatness does not necessarily mean goodness. For example, it might be said a great evil arose in the north. Evil can be great in that sense just as good can.

Greatness is a very vague and difficult to define concept, in the same way that power is. Phantom, you have pointed out the different ways in which power may be defined (and I will come back to that). But, I think that greatness is much the same. A character may be great in physical strength and therefore physically powerful. Or they may have great strength of mind, in which case they are mentally powerful. In fact, greatness is probably a wider concept, since a person might be described as having great beauty, but it is rare for beauty to be described as powerful (Helen of Troy, perhaps [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ).

Having said that, I think that there is merit in a discussion of how the concept of power is used in JRRT's works (there is probably already a thread on this, but I will plough on nevertheless [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] ). As you say, it is a word that has been bandied about on a great many threads without any real attempt being made to define what is meant by it. (I'm sure that there are exceptions, indeed Iarwain's Magic v Power thread is one such and I'm sure that there are a great many others which I have not read).

Power is a combination of a great many things, which the "powerful" characters of the books have in varying degrees. So, Gandalf's power lies not only in his "wizard" abilities (lightning bolts, incendiary fir cones and the like), but also in his wisdom, his judgement and his strength of mind. And perhaps his greatest power ("great" there being used as a qualifier of his power [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) is in his understanding of ME and its peoples. He knows where allies might be found in the least likeliest of places. The most obvious example here is his recognition the worth of the Hobbits (who most others have overlooked).

Sauron, too has great strength of mind. The power of his will, through the Nine Rings of Power, enslaves the Nazgul. Indeed, it is the power of his will that works through the One Ring to seek to corrupt, and eventually enslave, those who come into contact with it. And yet, for all that, he (unlike Gandalf) is unable to see the whole picture. He is unaware of the strength that lies in the most unlikliest of places, such as the Shire. And it is inconceivable to, and therefore wholly unforeseen by, him that two Hobbits might succeed in entering his realm with the intention of destroying the Ring. That is where the weakness in his power lies.

One aspect of power that has not been mentioned is military power. In most of the threads discussing who is the most powerful, the focus is generally on personal power, ie who would beat who in a one to one. This is an area where Sauron surely beats everyone else hands down. He had the mightiest (most powerful [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) armies at his disposal (Orcs, Trolls, Easterlings, Southrons etc) and the most dreadful of servants (the Nazgul to name but Nine). Gandalf (for all his ability to guide and direct the leaders of the armies of the free peoples) cannot hold a candle to him on this aspect of power. Had it come down to a straight miltary battle, Sauron would have prevailed.

Wow. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] I was going to talk about the different types of power displayed by the other "powerful" characters: Fingolfin, Feanor, Galadriel, Aragorn, Saruman, the Balrog etc, but I've rambled on for far too long. The point is, I suppose, that power displays itself in various ways in each of these characters. So, when we are talking about who is the most powerful, it is important first to consider what exactly we mean by "power".