[davem]

So, Arda at the end of time, would have reached a state of 'perfection'. It would become what Eru had concieved it to be in the beginning - yet it would 'only' then match what it had 'been' in His mind. In that case could we really speak of that being the 'end', as it would actually be (physically)what it had been originally? This is like the ouroboros, the serpent with its tail in its mouth - 'In my end is my beginning'.

One of the novels that most affected Tolkien was Eddison's The Worm Ouroborus, which basically ends at its beginning, the world of the novel having been turned back on itself, so the whole story would repeat throughout eternity, with the same characters foing the same things. Or we have Nietszche's Eternal return....

The Elves seek not to go into the West, but to return into the West - they seem to think in terms not of going forward but of going back, as though their foray into the 'outer' world has been a 'circular' movement. Yet they take the 'straight' road to get back to where they started. They are constantly driven to 'return' is the West for them as much a symbol of the 'beginning' to which they are drawn as it is 'Home'?

In Elvish sentiment the future was not one of hope or desire, but a decay & retrogression from former bliss & power. Though inevitably it lay ahead, as of one on a journey, 'looking forward' did not imply anticipation of delight. 'I look forward to seeing you again' did not mean or imply 'I wish to see you again' did not mean or imply 'I wish to see you again, & since that is arranged/and or very likely, I am pleased'. It meant simply 'I expect to see you again with the certainty of foresight (in some circumstances) or regard that as very probable - it might be with fear or dilsike, foreboding.' Their position, as of latter day sentiment, was [b] one of exiles driven foreward (against their will) who were in mind or actual posture ever looking backward (Tolkien in an unpublished note, quoted in Flieger 'a Question of Time'.

So they Elves are constantly driven not to go on into the West, but to go back to where they had been.

They are artists, seeking perfection in their creations - yet that perfection they desire had only existed at one point - in the Mind of Eru before the Music.

Originally Posted by Lalwende

]So in effect, all the Light we receive is the past, it is something which has already happened; our Light (and our present) is the Sun‘s history. As for Time, it exists at several levels, including psychological time, and our psychological time by necessity moves forwards.

So Legolas experiences time differently, & thus inevitably percieves light differently?

But what does this make Elves - what does it say about their nature? Without rehashing the old 'Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes' arguments, does this mena that the Elves have such 'control' over their perception of time that they can choose not to count it - to actually exist psychologically outside time - so that the Rings do to the physical environment what the Elves (can) do to their mental environment & halt it, or cause it to run a different speeds - if for them memory is like to the waking world is that because they can mentally move backwards in time & be in that space-time again, reliving it? And so, their vision of a perfect 'state' would not be one of a perfect future time but a perfect past - the one that exists eternally in the Mind of Eru?

Yet, having said that, what would 'past' or 'future' mean to them, if they had that kind of power over it (or, which is the same thing, it had so little power over them.)