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Old 12-21-2004, 08:33 AM   #17
Findegil
King's Writer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
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RD-EX-21: I after I have read the note about the Númenórean tradition of the ‘Great Tales’, I have to agree that WH is not necessarily a part of the Narn i Chîn Húrin, but it is clearly a part of Narn e·mbar Hador. Considering this I would suggest the following chapter structure for later part of the ‘Translation from the Elvish’ (‘Great Tales’ are bold and underlined and there content are marked by quote boxes; chapter headlines are bold, subchapters are italic and section headings are in normal script, mark that especially in the beginning of our work not all chapters are part of a ‘Great Tale’, question marks are added where headings are uncertain or need discussion later on):

Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin
Narn Beren ion Barahir or Narn e·Dinúviel
Quote:
The Lay of Leithian
Of Thingol in Doriath
Of Lúthien the Beloved
Of Dairon Minstrel of Thingol
Of Morgoth & the Snaring of Gorlim
Of the Saving of King Finrod Felagund by the XII Beorings
Of Tarn Aeluin the Blesses
Of Gorlim Unhappy
Of Beren Son of Barahir & his Escape
Of the Coming of Beren to Doriath; but first is told of the Meeting of Melian and Thingol
Beren's meeting with Lúthien
Beren before Thingol
Luthien's captivity in Doriath
Beren in Nargothrond
Beren and Felagund before Sauron
Lúthien in Nargothrond
The defeat of Sauron
The attack by Celegorm and Curufin
The disguising of Beren and Lúthien and the journey to Angband
Fingolfin and Morgoth; the meeting with Carcharoth
Beren and Luthien in Angband
Escape from Angband
?The Hunt for Lúthien and the Loss of Dairon?
?The Home-coming of Beren and Lúthien?
?The Wolf-hunt?
?The Recall of Beren?
Narn e·mbar Hador
Quote:
Narn i Chîn Húrin or Narn e·’Rach Morgoth
The Childhood of Túrin
?Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad?
The Words of Húrin and Morgoth
The Departure of Túrin
Túrin in Doriath
Túrin among the Outlaws
Of Mîm the Dwarf
?Of Dor-Cúrathol, the Land of Bow and Helm?
?Of Túrins Rescue by Beleg?
?Túrin in Nargothrond?
The Return of Túrin to Dor-Lómin
The coming of Túrin into Brethil
The Journey of Morwen and Nienor to Nargothrond
Nienor in Brethil
The Coming of Glaurung
The Death of Glaurung
The Death of Túrin

Of the Ruin of Doriath
The Wanderings of Húrin
The Nauglamír Necklace of the Dwarves, ‘Sigil Elu-neath’ Necklace of the Woe of Thingol

Narn en·Êl or Narn e·Dant Gondolin ar Orthad en·Êl
Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin
Of the Voyage of Eärendil and the War of Wrath

Of the Great Battle and the War of Wrath
Of the Last End of the Oath of Fëanor and his Sons
Of the Passing of the Elves
The Second Prophecy of Mandos
Is that a structure we all can go with?

RD-EX-40: Agreed so fare. (But is “did we have husbanded” grammatically correct?) What if we change the second part like this, to let it sound more like Thingol’s own idea:
Quote:
§28d (§9) … RD-EX-40<TN Now when all was done and their smithcraft given to the king, then said {Ufedhin}[the Dwarves]: ‘O {Tinwelint}[Thingol], richest of kings, dost thou think these things fair?’ And he said: ‘Yea’; but {Ufedhin}[they] said: ‘Know then that great store of thy best and purest gold{ remaineth still, for}[did] we have husbanded{ it}, {having a boon to ask of thee, and it is this: we would}[to] make thee {a}[the] carcanet and to its making lay all the skill and cunning that we have, and we desire that this should be the most marvellous ornament that the Earth has seen, and the greatest of the works of Elves and Dwarves. Therefore {we}[you] beg {of thee to let} us{ have}[to take] that Silmaril that thou treasurest, that it may shine wondrously amid the {Nauglafring}[Nauglamír], the Necklace of the Dwarves.’>
RD-EX-36.5: Maédhros, you will find that addition in post #10. But since Aiwendil is not happy with it, read first my new suggestion which follows.
Posted by Aiwendil:
Quote:
As for RD-EX-36.5 - it does seem a bit odd to have Thingol doubt their purpose and only reluctantly give them the jewel now. I suppose we ought to delete this.
But can you understand my reason for clinging to the passage? If so, here it might be one of the few places were the text of Sil77 might be helpful:
Quote:
§28a (§7) RD-EX-36 <TN Being therefore without counsel they bowed before the king, and the faces of the Dwarf-folk show seldom what they think. Now after a time of rest was that{ last} smithying begun in a deep place of {Tinwelint}[Thingol]'s abode which he caused to be set apart for their uses{, and what their hearts lacked therein fear supplied, and in all that work Ufedhin had a mighty part}.> RD-EX-36.5 <Sil77 Long was their labour; and Thingol went down alone to their deep smithies, and sat ever among them as they worked{.}><editorial addition on the necklace.>
RD-EX-22 and RD-EX-24
Sorry I left out “trebly” -> “doubly”. But your passage has an editing problem since you left “, and cursed by” stand which must be deleted. But I think that is not more than a slip of the pen. We seem to be in agreement with the content.

§24b The summon to Belegost: Your argumentations is good, I agree, we will skip the summon to Belegost.

RD-EX-25: If you both think it must go then we will skip the description.

It seems there is not overmuch left. I wonder that we found an agreement in RD-SL-10 so easy.

Respectfully
Findegil
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