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davem · 12-30-2004, 01:54 AM

|Bethberry's mention of The Dream of the Rood reminded me of the medieval legend that the wood from which the cross was made was cut from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil in Eden. The tree which lead to Man's fall is the same one on which it's salvation was achieved, so that Christ becomes the 'fruit' hanging from that tree - a fruit that brings life rather than death.

So we have Trees & tree- symbolism running through the Legendarium - which begins with the Two Trees of Valinor & ends with the Two Trees of Middle earth - the White Tree in Gondor & the Mallorn in the Shire. Middle earth becomes an 'echo' of the Blessed realm, & Heaven has come down to earth. It is a kind of 'incarnation'. The world is made 'divine' in a small way because the divine has entered into the world. As Above, so Below. As Then, so Now.

So with all the repetitions of name - 'Minas Tirith' is a name which echoes down out of the First Age - names of people echo down in the same way. Some individuals live on through each age - Elrond, Galadriel, Glorfindel, Sauron & prvide a living link to the past. Connections through time - constant references to heroes of the past, & their stories abound to strengthen this meaning, this link, that people have with the past.

The past is alive in the present, rather than being simply 'memory' - & that's principally because of the Elves (& to an extent to the Ents). When they have passed into the West, or into the Land, that link will be gone, & there will be only memory - which is 'not what the heart desires'. And perhaps that's it - what we have now is not what our hearts desire. They desire a living connection with the past, so that it is not truly 'past'. They desire 'Elves'. Which, I think, is FMF's point. Its also, perhaps, the reason of our dislike of change - if it involves the loss of the old. Perhaps it also explains the desire for destruction that some individuals have. To break free of the past & begin anew is also part of what we desire. We have inherited (within the mythology, at least) an Elvish 'strain'. The Elvish side of us wants that living link, wants to preserve our connection with what we were & where we came from. The 'Mannish' side wants to move forward & explore, & has to break those links. We are pulled in both directions - towards past & future. LotR is a book about endings & loss of what was, but its also one that looks forward to a new future. It is a kind of frozen moment, an eternal 'present' - which perhaps explains why we can continually go back to it - it will never become 'stale', because it's always right at the point we are at as individuals - caught between past & present.

12-30-2004, 01:54 AM	#51
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	\|Bethberry's mention of The Dream of the Rood reminded me of the medieval legend that the wood from which the cross was made was cut from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil in Eden. The tree which lead to Man's fall is the same one on which it's salvation was achieved, so that Christ becomes the 'fruit' hanging from that tree - a fruit that brings life rather than death. So we have Trees & tree- symbolism running through the Legendarium - which begins with the Two Trees of Valinor & ends with the Two Trees of Middle earth - the White Tree in Gondor & the Mallorn in the Shire. Middle earth becomes an 'echo' of the Blessed realm, & Heaven has come down to earth. It is a kind of 'incarnation'. The world is made 'divine' in a small way because the divine has entered into the world. As Above, so Below. As Then, so Now. So with all the repetitions of name - 'Minas Tirith' is a name which echoes down out of the First Age - names of people echo down in the same way. Some individuals live on through each age - Elrond, Galadriel, Glorfindel, Sauron & prvide a living link to the past. Connections through time - constant references to heroes of the past, & their stories abound to strengthen this meaning, this link, that people have with the past. The past is alive in the present, rather than being simply 'memory' - & that's principally because of the Elves (& to an extent to the Ents). When they have passed into the West, or into the Land, that link will be gone, & there will be only memory - which is 'not what the heart desires'. And perhaps that's it - what we have now is not what our hearts desire. They desire a living connection with the past, so that it is not truly 'past'. They desire 'Elves'. Which, I think, is FMF's point. Its also, perhaps, the reason of our dislike of change - if it involves the loss of the old. Perhaps it also explains the desire for destruction that some individuals have. To break free of the past & begin anew is also part of what we desire. We have inherited (within the mythology, at least) an Elvish 'strain'. The Elvish side of us wants that living link, wants to preserve our connection with what we were & where we came from. The 'Mannish' side wants to move forward & explore, & has to break those links. We are pulled in both directions - towards past & future. LotR is a book about endings & loss of what was, but its also one that looks forward to a new future. It is a kind of frozen moment, an eternal 'present' - which perhaps explains why we can continually go back to it - it will never become 'stale', because it's always right at the point we are at as individuals - caught between past & present. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."