[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Melkor stuck spirits and such in dragons and wolves, so we know he could house spirits. So why not rehouse? Elves were rehoused after they died, so we know it's possible to rehouse a spirit.

Agreed, but the ability to rehouse the Elves was not given to the Elves themselves, but to the Valar. Perhaps it is similar with the Maiar: once unable to reincarnate themselves, they are dependent on a higher power for rehousing. Of course, Melkor wouldn't be the power that SHOULD be doing this, but he is said to share in, and covet, the gifts of all his brethren, and it would be a form of rebellion to usurp the authority of the Valar (and in doing so create his own army).

Originally Posted by obloquy

I think your rankings are more complicated than they need to be. Morgoth was obviously the most powerful of the Fallen. Sauron was an especially powerful Umaia, but I do not see any reason to put him in a different class than the Balrogs. They were all the same, they just possessed varying degrees of power.

Also, Ungoliante was not an Umaia.

Well, I admitted myself that there could just as well be three rankings as four. But it was a somewhat minor point...

As for Ungoliant, she HAS to be an Úmaia, since how else does one explain that she joined the service of Melkor early on, and she recognised him as the Lord of Utumno? She's also quite powerful in her own right, and once she devours the power of the Trees, she has enough power to threaten Melkor himself (although his power is, of course, much dispersed by now throughout the matter of middle-earth).

It might be possible to debate whether or not Ungoliant was an Úmaia, but I think it has to be agreed on that she was an Ainu in origin, and since she was clearly not of Vala status, she must have been a Maia. Whether or not the "Ú" should be tacked on is pretty unimportant...

Originally Posted by Petty Dwarf

I also don't think a Boldog was very much further down from a Balrog. They were described as "only less formidable than the Balrogs". Read with the emphasis on the "less". The greater ones at least were horrifying, and probably more trollish than orkish.

The relative strength of a Boldog to a Balrog must be a debate that cannot finally be settled, considering how little we know about Boldogs, but I at least should say that a Boldog was considerably below the level of a Balrog. The Balrogs were armies unto themselves. It wasn't until the fall of Gondolin that one ever suffered from death. Previously, any battle including them was won by Morgoth.

Boldogs, on the other hand, were in charge of waging war against Doriath, something that Morgoth surely must have seen as near-impossible in his then-current situation. Had he REALLY been intent on crushing Thingol, surely he would have sent Sauron or Gothmog with the Balrogs against its borders. As it is, we only hear of ONE Boldog leading the skirmishes. In addition to which, it would seem that Beleg and Turin were both quite successful (above and beyond Melian's aid) in holding off his threat.

So personally, I don't think that the Boldogs were all that fearsome compared with Balrogs. Perhaps the analogy of the little-known Lesser Rings can be applied: "Mere trifles to the Elves, but essays in the craft, but still perilous in my mind to mortals" [Paraphrased from memory from the Lord of the Rings Not intended to be completely accurate.]