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12-11-2002, 01:35 PM

To interject my opinion on the above discussion, If Gandalf had gone with Frodo all of the way to Mt. Doom, I do not think that he would have resorted to taking the ring from Frodo for any reason. I believe this for two reasons

1. In regards to the ring, Gandalf seemed to work through channels of persuasion, not force on those he considered friends. I have no doubt that he would have bent all of his will against the pull of the ring to give Frodo the strength to dispose of the ring by his own free will had he been at Mt. Doom during the moment of truth. (like he had done previously for Frodo at Amon Hen and to Bilbo when he left the ring at Bag End) This idea might spill into the whole good = free will vs. evil = domination over others’ actions. Gandalf could use his powerful influence to help Frodo make the good choice but to actually take the ring or throw Frodo himself into the fire would be an act akin to the thinking of Sauron, even if it were trying to produce a good end result. Which leads me to my second point –

2. Gandalf, knowing more about the effects of the ring as demonstrated from his remarks on it throughout the text, would know that to forcefully take the ring at such a place could break his will of resistance to its power. He would not even accept it as a gift in a place far from Mordor, why would he believe that taking it in the heart of Mt. Doom would be a good idea. Sure, he is right where he needs to be to dispose of it, but by coming on the ring in such a way in Mordor itself, it seems that would he just keep it for himself once he had it. He had made the point about how important it was that Bilbo began his possession of the ring with pity, so for him to take it violently just makes no sense. Especially if the ring tempts its possessor based on his or her own inherent power.

I don’t know if it would have made a difference in the end to have Gandalf there at Mt. Doom. Maybe things would have happened the same, or maybe Gandalf’s presence would have allowed Frodo to throw the ring in unassisted, or maybe a bad result would have occurred. Either way it seems doubtful to me the Gandalf would ever have forcefully taken the ring from Frodo, IMO.

12-11-2002, 01:35 PM	#35
EnglishCountrySide Guest Posts: n/a	To interject my opinion on the above discussion, If Gandalf had gone with Frodo all of the way to Mt. Doom, I do not think that he would have resorted to taking the ring from Frodo for any reason. I believe this for two reasons 1. In regards to the ring, Gandalf seemed to work through channels of persuasion, not force on those he considered friends. I have no doubt that he would have bent all of his will against the pull of the ring to give Frodo the strength to dispose of the ring by his own free will had he been at Mt. Doom during the moment of truth. (like he had done previously for Frodo at Amon Hen and to Bilbo when he left the ring at Bag End) This idea might spill into the whole good = free will vs. evil = domination over others’ actions. Gandalf could use his powerful influence to help Frodo make the good choice but to actually take the ring or throw Frodo himself into the fire would be an act akin to the thinking of Sauron, even if it were trying to produce a good end result. Which leads me to my second point – 2. Gandalf, knowing more about the effects of the ring as demonstrated from his remarks on it throughout the text, would know that to forcefully take the ring at such a place could break his will of resistance to its power. He would not even accept it as a gift in a place far from Mordor, why would he believe that taking it in the heart of Mt. Doom would be a good idea. Sure, he is right where he needs to be to dispose of it, but by coming on the ring in such a way in Mordor itself, it seems that would he just keep it for himself once he had it. He had made the point about how important it was that Bilbo began his possession of the ring with pity, so for him to take it violently just makes no sense. Especially if the ring tempts its possessor based on his or her own inherent power. I don’t know if it would have made a difference in the end to have Gandalf there at Mt. Doom. Maybe things would have happened the same, or maybe Gandalf’s presence would have allowed Frodo to throw the ring in unassisted, or maybe a bad result would have occurred. Either way it seems doubtful to me the Gandalf would ever have forcefully taken the ring from Frodo, IMO.