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Child of the 7th Age · 04-01-2003, 06:29 PM

Helen,

I will take a look at that article later, and respond.

Bethberry,

I noticed on the other thread that you said you would suggest a definition of "gated community" here and consider how this relates to Tolkien. I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this,

Lily,

You've cited several good examples where Tolkien did portray the different peoples of Middle-earth coming together in a positive light such as in Bree and Ithilien.

But, like you, I am baffled by the Woses and the hobbits in the Fourth Age, especially the latter. Were the hobbits so terrified by the Scouring that they felt the only realistic option was to exclude Men totally? Since the Fourth Age was to be the time of the dominion of Men, how could this possibly work?

Another thing that intrigues me is that each of the three main hobbit types bears a resemblence to one of the other major free peoples of Middle-earth, both physically and in terms of their likes/dislikes. We have Stoors who look and act like Men; Harfoot who bore a resemblence to dwarves; and, of course, the Fallohides who seem to have Elvish ties. Certainly, this is seen in Frodo.

Is this mere coincidence? Or is it the result of these hobbit groups formerly having particular acquaintances among the other folk of Middle-earth, or the result of actual physical unions? Perhaps the fairy brides that the Tooks were rumored to have taken in The Hobbit.

And yet, even with these affinities, the hobbits are clearly insular. Gandalf comments negatively on this in Unfinished Tales. And the first thing the Shirelings do in the Fourth Age is to secure an edict from Elessar that reflects not only their right to self governance, but excludes all men from the Shire. I'm not sure if exceptions could be made to this under the King's safe conduct, or even by the hobbits themselves.

A puzzling attitude. The forces of the shadow are defeated, and Tolkien has the good guys put up even higher barriers than before.

[ April 02, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

04-01-2003, 06:29 PM	#6
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Helen, I will take a look at that article later, and respond. Bethberry, I noticed on the other thread that you said you would suggest a definition of "gated community" here and consider how this relates to Tolkien. I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this, Lily, You've cited several good examples where Tolkien did portray the different peoples of Middle-earth coming together in a positive light such as in Bree and Ithilien. But, like you, I am baffled by the Woses and the hobbits in the Fourth Age, especially the latter. Were the hobbits so terrified by the Scouring that they felt the only realistic option was to exclude Men totally? Since the Fourth Age was to be the time of the dominion of Men, how could this possibly work? Another thing that intrigues me is that each of the three main hobbit types bears a resemblence to one of the other major free peoples of Middle-earth, both physically and in terms of their likes/dislikes. We have Stoors who look and act like Men; Harfoot who bore a resemblence to dwarves; and, of course, the Fallohides who seem to have Elvish ties. Certainly, this is seen in Frodo. Is this mere coincidence? Or is it the result of these hobbit groups formerly having particular acquaintances among the other folk of Middle-earth, or the result of actual physical unions? Perhaps the fairy brides that the Tooks were rumored to have taken in The Hobbit. And yet, even with these affinities, the hobbits are clearly insular. Gandalf comments negatively on this in Unfinished Tales. And the first thing the Shirelings do in the Fourth Age is to secure an edict from Elessar that reflects not only their right to self governance, but excludes all men from the Shire. I'm not sure if exceptions could be made to this under the King's safe conduct, or even by the hobbits themselves. A puzzling attitude. The forces of the shadow are defeated, and Tolkien has the good guys put up even higher barriers than before. [ April 02, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.