The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Middle earth= middle ages?/Barrow Downs= Ireland and Scotland?

Kiara · 12-04-2002, 01:13 PM

i think most of you guys went way to far with the whole Irish/English/Scottish/Welsh thing. There is a ton of really sad history about both of those Islands (all of those islands!) and just about Europe in general. Too many wars in too little space, it's not worth getting hot and bothered about again---that's what the wars accomplished in the first place, I would have hoped.

As for Ireland, I lived there in the 90s, and visited Scotland and England & Wales often in the time I was there. It was still WAY behind other countries in many industrial aspects, and if there was a category of "2nd world country" back then, Ireland fit there. They are a passionate and headstrong people, and the English were the ones who helped them get "organized" in many ways (both by causing them to react to them negatively, and by positive economic influences as well). What I'm saying is there is both good and bad in the history of their relationship: AND NEITHER OF THEM ARE COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED in their actions.

But in regard to Tolkien's view or lack thereof of the situation in Ireland and the "power struggle" therein, with the 1916 uprising in Ireland, and how that played into WWI etc..., I DOUBT very much that he didn't notice it or even have an opinion of it, especially as he was part of the "British intelligencia".

P.S. Does anyone have a monopoly on or a "one up" on the thoughts of the great man? I think not. Let's try and ALL (including me) be a bit more humble and receptive....please. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

12-04-2002, 01:13 PM	#31
Kiara Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: wish 'twere Ireland Posts: 50	i think most of you guys went way to far with the whole Irish/English/Scottish/Welsh thing. There is a ton of really sad history about both of those Islands (all of those islands!) and just about Europe in general. Too many wars in too little space, it's not worth getting hot and bothered about again---that's what the wars accomplished in the first place, I would have hoped. As for Ireland, I lived there in the 90s, and visited Scotland and England & Wales often in the time I was there. It was still WAY behind other countries in many industrial aspects, and if there was a category of "2nd world country" back then, Ireland fit there. They are a passionate and headstrong people, and the English were the ones who helped them get "organized" in many ways (both by causing them to react to them negatively, and by positive economic influences as well). What I'm saying is there is both good and bad in the history of their relationship: AND NEITHER OF THEM ARE COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED in their actions. But in regard to Tolkien's view or lack thereof of the situation in Ireland and the "power struggle" therein, with the 1916 uprising in Ireland, and how that played into WWI etc..., I DOUBT very much that he didn't notice it or even have an opinion of it, especially as he was part of the "British intelligencia". P.S. Does anyone have a monopoly on or a "one up" on the thoughts of the great man? I think not. Let's try and ALL (including me) be a bit more humble and receptive....please. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] __________________ "What if you slept, and what if in your sleep you dreamed, and what if, in your dream, you went to paradise and there plucked a beautiful flower...and what if when you awoke, you held that flower in your hand? Ah, what then?"