The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - LotR -- Book 3 - Chapter 08

davem · 02-02-2005, 04:27 PM

I do find the conversation of Legolas & Gimli regarding the Caves interesting for what it tells us about their relationship. For all their friendship Legloas still clearly sees Gimli as materialistic & fails to understand that his friend could have anything more than a mercenary interest in the Caves' contents. And this comes after Gimli has been waxing lyrical about their beauty & declaring that Dwarves would consider them a place of pilgrimage.

One does have to ask whether Gimli would have had such feelings before he encountered & fell in love with Galadriel, but it does seem a bit unfeeling of Legolas to be so judgemental & condemnatory. Perhaps his predjudices remain despite all he has learned. Indeed, it seems that Gimli is the 'sensitive' one in this relationship, & Legolas is betraying the Elves' innate (but false) sense of 'superiority' over other races. I wonder if Tolkien is making a point here about his primary creation - they aren't in any way 'ideal' beings. They are smug, controlling & 'holier than thou' to a deeply unhealthy (& unpleasant) degree. Of course, they have their virtues, which at the least balance out such faults, but those faults are there. Legolas needs putting in his place - he is 'talking like a fool' & Gimli is right to point this out to him.

Legolas quite rightly accepts his friend's reprimand - he seems almost shocked when, finally, the implications of Gimli's words penetrate his Elven 'superiority'. Legolas has so far been in the role of 'teacher' - he has told the others about his people, has advised & made 'suggestions' - but one can't help feeling he has learned little: probably because like most of his kindred he has felt he had nothing to learn. Gimli, a mortal, has taught Legolas a valuable lesson here, & perhaps a seed has been planted in the Elf's heart. I can't help but wonder whether he has begun to realise that, like all his kindred, he is not needed any longer to guide & teach the 'younger children'. They can fend for themselves. His time is over. It is time to think seriously of saying 'Goodbye'.

02-02-2005, 04:27 PM	#9
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	I do find the conversation of Legolas & Gimli regarding the Caves interesting for what it tells us about their relationship. For all their friendship Legloas still clearly sees Gimli as materialistic & fails to understand that his friend could have anything more than a mercenary interest in the Caves' contents. And this comes after Gimli has been waxing lyrical about their beauty & declaring that Dwarves would consider them a place of pilgrimage. One does have to ask whether Gimli would have had such feelings before he encountered & fell in love with Galadriel, but it does seem a bit unfeeling of Legolas to be so judgemental & condemnatory. Perhaps his predjudices remain despite all he has learned. Indeed, it seems that Gimli is the 'sensitive' one in this relationship, & Legolas is betraying the Elves' innate (but false) sense of 'superiority' over other races. I wonder if Tolkien is making a point here about his primary creation - they aren't in any way 'ideal' beings. They are smug, controlling & 'holier than thou' to a deeply unhealthy (& unpleasant) degree. Of course, they have their virtues, which at the least balance out such faults, but those faults are there. Legolas needs putting in his place - he is 'talking like a fool' & Gimli is right to point this out to him. Legolas quite rightly accepts his friend's reprimand - he seems almost shocked when, finally, the implications of Gimli's words penetrate his Elven 'superiority'. Legolas has so far been in the role of 'teacher' - he has told the others about his people, has advised & made 'suggestions' - but one can't help feeling he has learned little: probably because like most of his kindred he has felt he had nothing to learn. Gimli, a mortal, has taught Legolas a valuable lesson here, & perhaps a seed has been planted in the Elf's heart. I can't help but wonder whether he has begun to realise that, like all his kindred, he is not needed any longer to guide & teach the 'younger children'. They can fend for themselves. His time is over. It is time to think seriously of saying 'Goodbye'. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."