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Kalimac · 03-23-2002, 01:36 AM

Sociological and political dimensions...it's hard to say, because there are so many things that could defined as fitting into one category. If you're asking if Tolkien set out consciously to make a sociological or political statement, no, I don't think he did. A lot of his attitudes were shown (especially his hatred of war machinery and the way the twentieth century fought its wars and destroyed its land) but he always insisted that he did not set out to write an allegory or a teaching story, and any story whose events are designed with an end towards anything (except getting the story told) is a fable or allegory in some way, often a very weak and mean one.

It's true, though, that one point that's hammered home time and again (all those dotting references to "Sauron would laugh to us so divided amongst ourselves") is the need of all the foes of evil to join together and fight it, all at great sacrifice, for the ultimate betterment of the world. The interesting thing is that even with most of the forces of Middle-Earth joined against Sauron, they don't actually defeat him themselves - Frodo "fails" in his quest and claims the Ring in the end (Tolkien refers in his letters to Frodo "failing" in his quest, but not in any way dishonorable to him - he was honored for having done far and beyond what anyone else could have, until the circumstances were too much for his soul). Sauron is defeated (or neutralized, at any rate, pushed out of the running) ultimately by Fate, as determined by a few actions of hobbits, the desire of Iluvatar, or whatever. But Fate would never have been able to accomplish this without the fact that everybody involved was sacrificing - or willing to sacrifice - everything they had to *try* and bring this about. To sum it up; Frodo and the denizens of Middle-Earth did every last thing they could, but still fell a few inches short of making it - Fate gave them the final push.

This would seem to say a good deal about Tolkien's attitude towards God, but also about allying against evil. What he seems to be saying (subconsciously) is that we have to fight as hard as we can, as much as we can, risk everything and still know that in the end we will be unable to defeat evil on our own. The Lord helps those who help themselves, you could say.

Sorry for the ramble. Does this make any sense as a theory?

03-23-2002, 01:36 AM	#8
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Sociological and political dimensions...it's hard to say, because there are so many things that could defined as fitting into one category. If you're asking if Tolkien set out consciously to make a sociological or political statement, no, I don't think he did. A lot of his attitudes were shown (especially his hatred of war machinery and the way the twentieth century fought its wars and destroyed its land) but he always insisted that he did not set out to write an allegory or a teaching story, and any story whose events are designed with an end towards anything (except getting the story told) is a fable or allegory in some way, often a very weak and mean one. It's true, though, that one point that's hammered home time and again (all those dotting references to "Sauron would laugh to us so divided amongst ourselves") is the need of all the foes of evil to join together and fight it, all at great sacrifice, for the ultimate betterment of the world. The interesting thing is that even with most of the forces of Middle-Earth joined against Sauron, they don't actually defeat him themselves - Frodo "fails" in his quest and claims the Ring in the end (Tolkien refers in his letters to Frodo "failing" in his quest, but not in any way dishonorable to him - he was honored for having done far and beyond what anyone else could have, until the circumstances were too much for his soul). Sauron is defeated (or neutralized, at any rate, pushed out of the running) ultimately by Fate, as determined by a few actions of hobbits, the desire of Iluvatar, or whatever. But Fate would never have been able to accomplish this without the fact that everybody involved was sacrificing - or willing to sacrifice - everything they had to try and bring this about. To sum it up; Frodo and the denizens of Middle-Earth did every last thing they could, but still fell a few inches short of making it - Fate gave them the final push. This would seem to say a good deal about Tolkien's attitude towards God, but also about allying against evil. What he seems to be saying (subconsciously) is that we have to fight as hard as we can, as much as we can, risk everything and still know that in the end we will be unable to defeat evil on our own. The Lord helps those who help themselves, you could say. Sorry for the ramble. Does this make any sense as a theory? __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.