[Halfir]

Lathspell: Thank you for such a detailed response to my comments. He ie either a brave man or a fool who crosses swords with Gandalf himself - and I am not sure into which category I fall! However, here is my response.

1. I accept that my refernce to Saruman turning towards using the One for himself at the White Council is historically incorrect. I was trying to emphasize Saruman's deviousness was discernible even at the White Council stage, Galadriel was clearly concerned about him:"I it was who first summoned the White Council. And if my designs had not gone amiss, it would have been governed by Gandalf the Grey, and then mayhap things would have gone otherwise."
However, I should have been more precise and I accept your correction. The fact of Saruman's deviousness even at that time, however, I feel still remains.

2. You are incorrect in your assumption that I am saying that Gandalf wasmeantto fight the Balrog. My point was that Gandalf the Grey had to become Gandalf the White in order to acquire powers necessary for the final battles with the Dark Lord and his forces. Gandalf the Grey would not have been able to do so.

Moreover, in the quest tradition, the heros are tested and undergo 'rites of passage' in order to be purified and acquire enhanced powers.

The rite of passage for Gandalf the Grey is the fight with the Balrog. It could have been something else - but what was necesary was a transformingencounter.

As to why Pippin was attracted to the well, like you, I have no answers, save to say that chance and Gandalf have a strong affinity in LOTR.

3. You disagree with my ILuvatar point and say that the Valar sent Gandalf back, as they had Beren and Luthien and Glorfindel. You also say that Iluvatar would only intervene at a point of major crisis and you cite the drowning of Numenor.

Let's just view the situation at the point of Gandalf's 'death'. The Valar's plan to use the Istari to help ME aginst Sauron is in total disarray. Gandalf is 'dead'; Radgast has become obsessed with animals and birds rather than people; Saruman has been corrupted by his desire for the Ring; and the Blue Wizards have disappeared into the East possibly to found cults. Sauron is left supreme.Surley, a point at which a major intervention is called for by the creator himself!

Moreover, support for the theory that it is Iluvatar who intervenes comes from Tolkien himself. In letter #156 he writes:"Gandalf really 'died' and was changed; for that seems to me the only cheating, to represent anything that can be called 'death' as making no differnce...He was part of a more prudent plan of the angelic Valar, or governors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it at the moment of its failure."

The plan has failed - the plan of the Valar. Authority takes it up and enlarges it, because not to do do would surrender ME to Sauron. Authority can only mean one thing - Iluvatar.