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Originally Posted by davem
Thinking about it, doesn't LotR start to become more & more loaded with 'symbolism' from this point on?
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And from this point on, Tolkien's writing style changes, becoming more heavy and ponderous, or biblical, as it has been termed. He is here beginning to move on from the struggles of the journey to the struggles of the great deeds, battles and sieges. More symbolism could well be a natural result of trying to write in such a high flown style; there is more use of hyperbole and ever grander descriptions are needed as the days get darker and the battles harder. It is a way of emphasising the importance of what all the characters are engaged in. Tolkien had to show that the battle with Shelob was worse than the battle with the Balrog, that the Battle of the Pelennor Fields was worse than the battle of Helms Deep. He was building up the momentum by making the language more dense and noble.
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Originally Posted by Bethberry
Yet the predominant words are darkness and evil. Evil is repeated several times, to the point that even the road is called evil. Clearly the imagery is building towards the culmination of Minas Morgul as hell.
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Thinking again about whether a place can be inherently evil, a 'Hell', I thought of Auschwitz, if its right to use this as a comparison I do not know, so I apologise if that does offend anybody. The place remains of course as a memorial and reminder, but when operative, was it the place that was evil or what the place was used for? What was done there was more evil than anything we might imagine, and even now, the symbols of the train tracks which go nowhere else and the chimneys are incredibly powerful symbols of evil. But is it the place itself that is evil, or what was done there that is evil? What I am saying is that a deed can be an evil deed, or an intention can be an evil intention, but can a place be evil? Even if we say that by being in such a place it might inspire a person to commit evil acts, is that the fault of the place or something within the person?
I'm not sure I know the answer to that one, but if I did then I could definitely agree or disagree that Minas Morgul was Hell. As it is, it may or may not appear so to us as readers; and the fact that we can each interpret that vision ourselves actually makes it effective writing. Remembering that it is the Tower of the Moon, it ought also to have shifting characteristics, and it seems to have these if we can all read it differently.
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Originally Posted by Mithalwen
All this, if it is ever proved has great repercussions - morally and legally can people be punished for things which are not their fault? But the wider community has to be protected and if someone is biologically destined to kill do you let them walk the streets until they do?
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Scientists are always trying to explain evil deeds, and the nature/nurture debate always rears its head. Someone may have certain hormonal or mental disabilities which statistically may make them more likely to commit crimes, but statistics are also often misleading and contradictory. The hormonal imbalances which are seen in x percentage of criminals may seem to be the cause of their crimes, but it may instead be lack of proper medical and social care which leads people to be disaffected and hence commit crimes.
The law does take this into account. If a criminal is found to have acted under diminished responsibility then they are charged and dealt with accordingly. We can't do much more than that, as where does it stop if we start looking at probabilities?
But what is evil anyway? We automatically label a murderer as evil, but what about the greedy chief executive who siphons assets until the company goes bust and all the workforce are sacked and plunged into poverty? Or the company which buys cheap produce from third world countries where the workers are treated badly?
Evil of course is more defined in the moral structure of Arda, but even there it pays to be careful and not too presumptious about a person. Gollum is plainly untrustworthy and unstable, but Gandalf knows that he is also not entirely evil; he shows that inherent evil is not quite so easy to define as we might think.