View Single Post
Old 05-16-2005, 04:38 PM   #65
HerenIstarion
Deadnight Chanter
 
HerenIstarion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,244
HerenIstarion is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via ICQ to HerenIstarion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formendacil
Of course, I could be reading a lot more into this than necessary. However, I think I have successfully shown that Heren's presentation is far from solid
*H-I mutters under his breath: The cheek of these youngsters... they think they know everything, they do... I can't be having with that, can I?!. H-I reaches out for his books again...

All right, Sir:

Quote:
HoME vol 12, the page previous to the one which stated Aranarth to be born in 1938:

24 [24th since Elendil-H-I] Araphant. born 1789 lived 175 years died 1964.

Angmar recovers and makes war on the Dunedain. Araphant seeks to renew ancient alliance and kinship with Gondor. In 1940 his heir Arvedui wedded Firiel daughter of King Ondohir [> Ondonir] of Gondor. But Gondor is engaged in the long Wars of the Wainriders, and sends little help. Ondohir [> Ondonir] and his sons fell in battle in 1944, and Arvedui claimed the crown of Gondor, on behalf of Firiel and himself as representing 'the elder line of Isildur', since no close male claimant to the throne in Gondor could at first be found. The claim was rejected by Gondor, but Arvedui and his descendants continued to consider themselves as the true heirs of Anarion as well as of Isildur
Page apart. No mention of other wives (you do bring more x-ses in than wipe out by this 'previous wife theory', you know that)

Same from the Gondor side of things:

Quote:

31. Ondohir. [> Ondonir) born 1787 lived 157 years slain 1944.

War continued with the Wainriders. In 1940 Ondohir [> Ondonir] gave the hand of his daughter Firiel (born 1896), his third child, to Arvedui heir of Araphant, King of the North kingdom; but he was unable to send any help to the north against the evil realm of Angmar, because of his own peril. In 1944 Ondohir [> Ondonir] and both his sons Faramir and Artamir fell in battle against an alliance of the Wainriders and the Haradrim. The king and his sons fell in battle in the north and the enemy poured into Ithilien. But in the meantime Earnil Captain of the southern army won a victory in South Ithilien,
destroyed the army of Harad, and hastening north succoured the retreating remnants of the northern army, and drove the Wainriders off. In the great rout that followed most of the enemy were driven into the Dead Marshes.
On the death of Ondohir [>Ondonir] and his sons Arvedui of the North claimed the crown of Gondor as the 'direct descendant of Elendil', and as husband of Firiel. The claim was rejected by Gondor. At length Earnil the victorious Captain received the crown (in 1945), since he was of the royal house
Claim was made by Arvedui himself, not by Aranarth (even if we imagine (for a tiny moment) the impossibility of him not being Firiel's son)

P.S. Third party may lawfully knock holes in both theories, indicating the whole story as mere typo on Tolkien's part. But I prefer to dream romance behind it, masked Arvedui climbing the walls and swimming over Anduin to (not to lose sight of the title) kiss his beloved, that kind of thing. And little Aranarth being as much a cause for the wedding as political necessity may have been. Things tend to be hushed up in higher up circles, yer honour. Having in mind marriage customs, though, every union is automatically 'in wedlock', so 1940 T.A. may be viewed as the year of 'official rituals', confirming the fact.

cheers
__________________
Egroeg Ihkhsal

- Would you believe in the love at first sight?
- Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!
HerenIstarion is offline   Reply With Quote