The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post

davem · 06-15-2005, 02:08 PM

I think the essential difference between Tolkien's world & Rowling's is in their attitude as regards magic. The 'magic' we encounter in Middle earth is of two kinds - there is innate 'power' which is Eru given. This is what Gandalf, Galadriel, et al use - which is why Galadriel is at a loss to understand what Sam means by 'magic'. The other kind of magic is what we could call the study & practice of 'occultism'. It is power that is not Eru given, & the individual has to train to get it.

Innate 'abilities' (Galadriel's creating of her Mirror, Gandalf's use or 'chanelling of' the Secret Fire) are Good because the individual's were born with the ability to do those things. So, we're not dealing with 'magic' at all, just people behaving 'naturally'. Saruman's fall comes is shown - if not caused - by his desire to amass more power than Eru gave him - ie, his desire to be more than Eru made him to be. It is basically saying Eru made a mistake, He screwed up, & I have to put right what he got wrong. So 'Pride commeth before the fall.'

In Rowling's world magic is of this kind - people are not born with natural abilities that may appear to the Sams of this world as 'magic'. They study & practice to gain powers they would not have had otherwise.

Now it could be argued that the gaining of these powers is no different than excercising to make oneself physically stronger than one would have been, or reading books to increase one's knowledge. But the issue is the source of these enhanced abilities - with physical or mental 'training' we are developing & building on what we have from God, but Christians would say that magical powers are not the result of developing some innate, God given ability, but rather that these 'powers' are unnatural because they come from other 'powers', which are not God & therefore not 'good'.

So, Rowling's characters gain their magical powers in the way that beings like Saruman gains his extra powers, & their motivation is desire for such powers. This is wrong in itself - if you need anything more than you innately possess then God will give it to you - you won't have to train for years studying magic.

From this perspective Rowling's universe & the worldview it presents is essentially 'un-Christian' in that it says that the gaining of magical powers for their own sake is an admirable thing. Harry, Hermoine, Ron, et al, may use their powers to fight Voldemort, but they didn't go to Hogwarts in order[ to gain magical power for that reason. They just found a 'good' use for a bad thing - a thing they shouldn't have sought out in the first place.

All that simply to try & explain the difference from a Christian perspective - I'm not saying that its 'correct', but it does point up the essential difference between the two works.

Innate abilities, even if they seem like magic, are not magic. Magic of that kind is always seen as dangerous in Middle earth. The desire for such powers is a sign that the seeker is heading for the 'dark side'. Even objects like the Palantiri are dangerous because they promise the individual a power he or she was not meant to have. Aragorn has a right to use the Palantir - it is innate in him because of his heritage. Denethor's right is open to question, but his desire for the power to be gained from use of the Stone is what leads to his falling to Sauron.

Rowling's character's desire magical powers, to be more than they were made to be, & they are presented as good, & their desire & the powers it gains them, are not seen as wrong in & of themselves - only the way they use their magic is judged, not their desire to have it in the first place.

06-15-2005, 02:08 PM	#41
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	I think the essential difference between Tolkien's world & Rowling's is in their attitude as regards magic. The 'magic' we encounter in Middle earth is of two kinds - there is innate 'power' which is Eru given. This is what Gandalf, Galadriel, et al use - which is why Galadriel is at a loss to understand what Sam means by 'magic'. The other kind of magic is what we could call the study & practice of 'occultism'. It is power that is not Eru given, & the individual has to train to get it. Innate 'abilities' (Galadriel's creating of her Mirror, Gandalf's use or 'chanelling of' the Secret Fire) are Good because the individual's were born with the ability to do those things. So, we're not dealing with 'magic' at all, just people behaving 'naturally'. Saruman's fall comes is shown - if not caused - by his desire to amass more power than Eru gave him - ie, his desire to be more than Eru made him to be. It is basically saying Eru made a mistake, He screwed up, & I have to put right what he got wrong. So 'Pride commeth before the fall.' In Rowling's world magic is of this kind - people are not born with natural abilities that may appear to the Sams of this world as 'magic'. They study & practice to gain powers they would not have had otherwise. Now it could be argued that the gaining of these powers is no different than excercising to make oneself physically stronger than one would have been, or reading books to increase one's knowledge. But the issue is the source of these enhanced abilities - with physical or mental 'training' we are developing & building on what we have from God, but Christians would say that magical powers are not the result of developing some innate, God given ability, but rather that these 'powers' are unnatural because they come from other 'powers', which are not God & therefore not 'good'. So, Rowling's characters gain their magical powers in the way that beings like Saruman gains his extra powers, & their motivation is desire for such powers. This is wrong in itself - if you need anything more than you innately possess then God will give it to you - you won't have to train for years studying magic. From this perspective Rowling's universe & the worldview it presents is essentially 'un-Christian' in that it says that the gaining of magical powers for their own sake is an admirable thing. Harry, Hermoine, Ron, et al, may use their powers to fight Voldemort, but they didn't go to Hogwarts in order[ to gain magical power for that reason. They just found a 'good' use for a bad thing - a thing they shouldn't have sought out in the first place. All that simply to try & explain the difference from a Christian perspective - I'm not saying that its 'correct', but it does point up the essential difference between the two works. Innate abilities, even if they seem like magic, are not magic. Magic of that kind is always seen as dangerous in Middle earth. The desire for such powers is a sign that the seeker is heading for the 'dark side'. Even objects like the Palantiri are dangerous because they promise the individual a power he or she was not meant to have. Aragorn has a right to use the Palantir - it is innate in him because of his heritage. Denethor's right is open to question, but his desire for the power to be gained from use of the Stone is what leads to his falling to Sauron. Rowling's character's desire magical powers, to be more than they were made to be, & they are presented as good, & their desire & the powers it gains them, are not seen as wrong in & of themselves - only the way they use their magic is judged, not their desire to have it in the first place. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."