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Mithalwen · 06-17-2005, 12:15 PM

In Appendix B it says the edict is that "Men are not to enter the shire" which solves the Elf/Dwarf issue. I doubt that Elves would have taken any notice - and lets face it they had been passing discreetly through the shire for ages without anyone really taking much notice (apart from Bilbo and Frodo). Dwarves had been passing through more conspicuously but non threateningly I would say ( I mean people must have noticed Thorin and Co and the Dwarves who were around at the time of the party but I cannot think of any examples of anyone being overly disturbed by dwarves in transit. I imagine that most dwarves had removed from the Ered Luin to Erebor after the downfall of Smaug so I doubt they would be an issue either.

This leaves men - and to an extent how you interpret enter. My air travel tends to be planned at the last moment and the cheap options tend to involve changing planes and so I have an unenviable breadth of experience of transit lounges. So while I have physically been in (during the course of one journey!) Austria, Abu Dhabi, Singapore & Indonesia (2 airports!), I didn't actually legally enter another country after leaving the UK until the second stop in Australia. So I wonder if he meant enter and settle (remember how worried Butterbur was about people coming up from the south) rather than not allowed to pass through.

However I am suggesting this as a vague possibility rather than something I am convinced about - blame the fact that I am working for Lawyers at the moment that I am hypothesising that it is possible to interpret black as white!!!!

With regard to the roads, with the re-establishment of a settlement at Lake Evendim I expect roads would be re-established from both the end of the road from sarn Ford skirting the far downs, and from Fornost. Allowing most of the likely traffic to "by-pass" the Shire. However a strict "no men must set foot in the Shire" rule becomes more impracticable when the Westmarch is added to the shire and means a more lengthy (and hilly) detour left and right when the most direct route is straight on. It is really not a sensible way to run a kingdom having a self inflicted no-go area smack bang in the middle. So I have a suspicion that it is more a symbolic gesture than anything... like our own dear Queen being given a pair of ducks every time she sets foot in the Channel Islands

06-17-2005, 12:15 PM	#8
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	In Appendix B it says the edict is that "Men are not to enter the shire" which solves the Elf/Dwarf issue. I doubt that Elves would have taken any notice - and lets face it they had been passing discreetly through the shire for ages without anyone really taking much notice (apart from Bilbo and Frodo). Dwarves had been passing through more conspicuously but non threateningly I would say ( I mean people must have noticed Thorin and Co and the Dwarves who were around at the time of the party but I cannot think of any examples of anyone being overly disturbed by dwarves in transit. I imagine that most dwarves had removed from the Ered Luin to Erebor after the downfall of Smaug so I doubt they would be an issue either. This leaves men - and to an extent how you interpret enter. My air travel tends to be planned at the last moment and the cheap options tend to involve changing planes and so I have an unenviable breadth of experience of transit lounges. So while I have physically been in (during the course of one journey!) Austria, Abu Dhabi, Singapore & Indonesia (2 airports!), I didn't actually legally enter another country after leaving the UK until the second stop in Australia. So I wonder if he meant enter and settle (remember how worried Butterbur was about people coming up from the south) rather than not allowed to pass through. However I am suggesting this as a vague possibility rather than something I am convinced about - blame the fact that I am working for Lawyers at the moment that I am hypothesising that it is possible to interpret black as white!!!! With regard to the roads, with the re-establishment of a settlement at Lake Evendim I expect roads would be re-established from both the end of the road from sarn Ford skirting the far downs, and from Fornost. Allowing most of the likely traffic to "by-pass" the Shire. However a strict "no men must set foot in the Shire" rule becomes more impracticable when the Westmarch is added to the shire and means a more lengthy (and hilly) detour left and right when the most direct route is straight on. It is really not a sensible way to run a kingdom having a self inflicted no-go area smack bang in the middle. So I have a suspicion that it is more a symbolic gesture than anything... like our own dear Queen being given a pair of ducks every time she sets foot in the Channel Islands __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace Last edited by Mithalwen; 06-17-2005 at 12:20 PM.