[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

They both had a certain personality and Eru could forsee exactly what their personality and circumstances would lead them to do.

I don't believe that knowing what someone is going to do ahead of time means that the person does not have free will to choose.

Have you ever read Aldous Huxley's Brave New World? My signature entertained a quote from the book for awhile, but your words just brought it irrefutably to mind. You say that personality and circumstances lead people to things... in Huxley's book (taking place in a few hundred years) eugenics provides what you're talking about. It's nature versus nurture, only tweaked so that nature is what you make it, and you nurture it into what you want. By the time the "babies" are done being genetically enhanced (for alphas and betas) or conversely screwed up (pouring alcohol into the feeding tube of the fetus for epsilons and whatnot), you've got a load of "people" who are not only absolutely perfect for their lot in life, but who love every second of it, because it's what they're made for.

Sounds rather sinister and messed up, right? But they've got free will, yes, because each "person" can decide what to do each day. Going to work is entirely up to them. They can decide how much soma to take to escape reality. They can choose who their partners will be each day/week/whenever. They don't know any better than what they see before them, so the choices are free, yes? No constraints that they are aware of, so does that make the choice entirely theirs?

Originally Posted by mormegil

Fordim I understand what you are saying but you make each choice seem so cut and dry.

Because it is?

Originally Posted by mormegil

Sure Sam had the choice to be loyal or disloyal but it's a choice in varying degrees.

But surely disloyalty remains disloyalty regardless of the degree?

Originally Posted by mormegil

I think you've made each decision too black and white to be truly valid.

But what about those of us who live in a truly idealistic world where right is right and wrong is wrong (so far as we are able to tell, of course) and you can't grasp concepts that actively contradict themselves? Why else would I drop Calculus? Having a number called 2Infinity negates the concept that infinity is already the biggest. Having fate negates the idea that you can choose your own life down to the last degree.