[davem]

Originally Posted by SPM

But that's not what "canon" means. Something is "canon" if it is part of the recognised works (which I would interpret as published works) of the author. In the context of Middle-earth this includes anything within Tolkien's recognised works concerning Middle-earth. It does not have to "fit" the style or mood of the other works in order to be canon, and neither does it have to develop the "story".

So is Roverandom part of the Middle-earth canon? Roverandom had just as much of a basis in the Silmarillion mythology as The Hobbit when it was first written. I think you'd have a major problem fitting talking toy dogs & moon spiders into the Legendarium. TH was never written to be part of the Legendarium & Tolkien had to rewrite it to make it fit even as weakly as it does. If LotR had not been written - ie if The Sil had been accepted for publication as Tolkien wished after the success of TH, then no-one would have thought of it as having anything to do with The Sil. The world of TH is not the world of The Sil, its Elves & trolls are not the Elves & trolls of The Sil. They are the Elves & trolls of children's fairy story.

I simply don't get this. What is the "Legendarium" without the detail? Little of import would be lost by cutting out much of the detail of LotR. What does Bombadil add to the story? How does it further the tale to have a detailed description of Lothlorien or the plains of Rohan? No, Bilbo's tale of his adventure is as much a part of the "Legendarium" as Legolas' account of events at Pelargir and the description of Sam's temptation by the Ring. Otherwise where do we draw the line? If we were to start picking and choosing what is "necessary" to further the "Legendarium", there is a danger that we would be left with very little indeed. In fact, one might argue that this is exactly what happened to Tolkien's "Silmarillion writings" with the publication of The Silmarillion.

LotR was (increasingly) written to fit into The world of The Sil - TH was not. It had to be made (unsuccessfuly IMO) to fit by alteration. Its not a matter of what is 'necessary' but of mood, tone, style, content. TH belongs with Roverandom & to a lesser extent with Giles (& with Goblin Feet). All good (apart from the latter). It has links with M-e, but it doesn't fit, & it should be seen as a 'children's fairy story' work, a 'sub-sub creation. Bilbo experienced something of that kind, but I don't see any evidence that Tolkien was completely happy for it to be included. It had to be there, in a way, due to LotR growing out of it, but Tolkien expressed his discomfort with it. Its in the Legendarium on suffrance, because Tolkien couldn't rewrite it in a more suitable style - as he stated he wished to. If he'd had his way it would have been rewritten in the form of The Quest of Erebor. As such, it would have belonged.

And, let's not forget that the main reason LotR is dismissed by so many critics as a 'children's' book is because it is read in the light if TH. From that perspective TH may have done more harm to Tolkien's literary reputation than good.