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Old 08-25-2005, 05:42 AM   #10
Boromir88
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Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
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The chapter where we first meet Theoden is strangely enough one of the few moments in the book where the Rohirrim keep still!

In contrast, the Gondorians at the time of the War of the Ring seem to have stagnated, or more specifically, the residents of Minas Tirith.~Lalwende
Very good point, something I did not notice before. Even when Theoden was under Saruman's control, the Rohirrim were still wandering (Eomer, Theodred, Erkenbrand...etc). Then their movement becomes increases greatly after Gandalf helps Theoden.

I think there can be two types of wanderers we can talk about here. There's the physical wanderers that travel all over (Gandalf,Elladan? and Elrohir?, Aragorn's been to a wide list of places), and perhaps their final journey is to reach the sea (except Aragorn). Then there are the "mind-wanderers" they may necessarily not travel a lot but their mind wanders.

The best example I can give for this is Faramir. Though Faramir does not travel a lot from what we can tell, he's basically fixed and stuck in Gondor, I would still call him a wanderer, atleast in the mind. Because, he is not afraid of change. He's got an open mind to knowledge, but greatest of all is he doesn't care about change. He doesn't care if he goes against his fathers orders, he doesn't care if Minas Tirith burns to the ground, he doesn't care a King has come back to claim the Throne. He doesn't mind(yes pun intended) the change.

What makes Denether the fixed-mind is as pointed out by Estelyn, he doesn't want change, he doesn't want to lose his throne, he wants to be obeyed and he wants things as they once were. Of course, also Denethor is fixed in the physical sense, we barely see him leave his throne.

It's also interesting how there's mostly been pointing at wanderers being the best and most faithful (Gandalf, Aragorn...etc), but can wanders get lost? For instance, the Noldor. They didn't want to stay fixed, and desired to roam about Middle-earth and run the lands themselves, even after being told no by the higher powers.

Perhaps, there's something with that drigel mentions.
Quote:
The sea represents the ulitmate journey, or IMO representing the barrier that separates the corporeal from the non-corporeal, the physical from the spiritual.
The Sea is that ultimate journey and those who go to it are the wanderers that are on the right path. But those who want to depart from the sea, and wander away from it (Noldor) are "lost."

Mr. Underhill, I will say "near" redemption isn't the same thing as redemption, but you bring up the great point that Gollum did travel a lot and all over. But I think it's a different case for Gollum. He's wandering because he wants to be fixed. The one time Gollum was fixed in his Misty Mountains for some 500 years was when he had the ring. The reason he wanders is to look for the Ring, possibly similar to what Denethor wanted, wanted life the way as it was. Gollum wanted the Ring back so he could hide in mountains and stay there with it. Just a suggestion, I would love to hear your input.
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Last edited by Boromir88; 08-25-2005 at 05:47 AM.
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